Tell my why you turned down an Outstanding State Primary for Private school

[AliceAnneB]

We will most likely be faced with choosing between our local Outstanding primary and Private school next year. I'm wondering if there are others and why they did it.

I can tell you why we didn't if that helps?
I discovered I was pg during the application process and was concerned with sending 2 private from 4 to 18 in terms of cost. It also meant my return to work plans were going on hold.
Both my 2 are at an Outstanding state Primary and we are happy with it but they will be going Private for Secondary. The delay has meant that I have the school fees for both children saved up for the whole time they will be there so there will be no impact on our lifestyle from paying fees.
We have also had nice holidays, cars etc over the last 6 years and not had to make sacrifices, which we would if we had paid fees.

Norfolk House vs Rhodes Avenue?

Rhodes, no question. There are private schools that are worth paying for, and there are state schools that are worth avoiding. And then there are situations where you'd be bonkers to pay for private when you could access state.

You are in the latter scenario. If you really want to pay for a fancy uniform and smaller classes, then go for it, another family will be thrilled that you've freed up a place at Rhodes. But if you are a sane balanced individual who just wants a good education for your child in a nice community, then pick the state school.

For us it was opportunities (all extra curricular included and on site so no ferrying about), facilities (science labs, sports pitches, swimming), class size as DC not confident, long term it meant they didn't have to move at 11 unless they wanted to and academically the preps were far higher results than even the outstanding primary.

That combined with the fact our outstanding primary (at the time, it is more rigorous now I know) was only outstanding because of a pushy middle class intake who heavily tutor to get them into private at 11... So IMO value added was limited.

Financially it was a push at times but worth every penny.

The reason I'm not comfortable with state are the class size but also SATS. The year six kids seem to do very little except prepare for them and in a way RAve seems more hothouse than the privates. I'm also not keen on tutoring a child for the 11+ at the same time as he's being pushed to get ready for the SATS. The entire curriculum seems very driven by the SATS results and that the emphasis is on getting as many kids over the bar rather than on getting the best out of each child. I really don't think you can give the right amount of support for emotional/social well being with 30 in a class.

However, I do really love the idea of local friends and no commute to school. I'm leaning fairly heavily toward Grimsdell for the facilities and the fact that he could stay until he's 18 if he wanted to or he could move to somewhere more academic he turns out to be. But if we do go that way then really I would consider moving because I don't want a school commute forever. I wish I had a sense of how oversubscribed Grimsdell is or isn't because that might let us try the state school and if it didn't work then switch him out.

As far as the second kid goes there are of course lots of factors in that decision but if we didn't have a second I would be fine with it. I'm an only and my family are all academics and I never felt any pressure and wouldn't anticipate my son feeling any either. I want him to do his best, have a happy childhood and become a good man. His academic results aren't my main focus.

And thank you to whoever suggested Golders Hill School - that wasn't on my list and now is!

That was me - feel free to PM if you want any more info on it (Golders Hill), my son is there and I'm very happy with it.

I agree alice as a primary teacher who has worked in state and prep, even the most selective or 'hot house' of preps sending pupils onto the most selective senior schools do not come close to the SATs pressure. It is certainly about the 4b, not the progress and individual bests.

Although many preps do SATs now to be able to compare themselves. They tend to find results come fairly easily though and no major push is needed.

I would turn down an outstanding state school place if there was an outstanding private school offering a place. I don't think the schools you are thinking of would make me want to pay the fees and drive through rush hour. If they were next door I might be more interested.

I think places do come up. Belmont takes children from schools besides Grimsdell. I know one family who called up and found a place was available at a non-standard age in Belmont. The child was not tutored, had been at a state school and passed the test. Child is happy there.

Pre-preps that don't feed into a particular school seem to have a bit of turnover too, so I think places do come up at the Avenue for instance.

If you strongly dislike Sats there are a few options. Start at R Ave and switch at 7. Apply for City which has a year 6 intake. Other prep schools will have places available because families move away or switch schools.

Personally, I would try the state option and assume that you will do lots of enrichment at home and arrange some clubs and hobbies. But it sounds as though you're keen on private and willing to pay the fees and commute.

When PFB was starting school, we looked around a (selective) private primary school and an hour later we looked around an outstanding state primary.

The private school won hands down, even though the state primary was very good for a state primary (I didn't know that then but I do now).

Then our circumstances changed for the worse and private school wasn't an option any more, plus we couldn't afford the area that the outstanding state primary was in either. So, we moved house and the DC went to a good state primary.

Looking back, I can clearly see that the outstanding primary was really excellent for a state primary, and because it was in a wealthy area, the parents had made donations to the school that made the facilities far superior to anything I've seen at any state primary anywhere else.
However, it was nowhere compared to what the private school would have offered in terms of facilities, teaching and, most importantly for us, sufficiently differentiated work.

My son went to an 'outstanding' school. Only it wasn't in his eyes. ( it was dreadful in hindsight, I have very little faith in Ofsted reports now). He now goes to a private school. He is 100% happier there and the opportunities there far out weigh what was on offer at the state school. Even though his school is very academic, it's not just about the end product of academic achievement. Some people think private schooling is a waste of money if you can get the same results at a state school. No doubt my son would have acheived the same results academically if he had stayed in the state system but it's what his overall experience is at school that was paramount to us. For us and him, having experienced both, the choice is private.
For most families who have only experienced either state or private then they have nothing to gauge it on. But you also have to be aware of the different tiers of private schools. For us personally the quality of teaching and sports coaching in all aspects of school life has been excellent at his private school. Unfortunately this wasn't the case in the state system.
I think your child would probably be happy in the state option, just as he would be happy in the private option. ( but there are different levels of happiness!). Parents at my son's private school think that it is terribly difficult to get a state school place ( as they are so over subscribed) and the state school parents think it's dreadfully difficult to get into a private school ( because of the selective entry). Do your research. Don't go on just an Ofsted report to make your decision. Look long term, is the state primary a feeder for well thought of secondary schools, can you afford the fees of private schooling, is the school a through school, do you like the senior school, etc. There are a few entry points for private schools. If your son went to the state school and you decided it wasn't the right route for him then you could apply at the various entry points for entry into a private school. You are in an enviable position to be able to choose. So many don't have the option.

SATS pressure doesn't have to go with the state school territory. DD is in Yr6, currently embarking on writing a very long story (as long as Harry Potter, apparently, 'one of the shorter ones') and leading a team of her classmates in producing an set of embroidered panels depicting A Midsummer Night's Dream. Preparation for the Yr6 production is underway, and they've been learning first aid - meanwhile SATS week is the week after next. She's doing one level 6 paper, as her class teacher thinks that while she'd perhaps get another one or two level 6s on a good day, she'd rather she were out in the playground than doing yet another test. DD is feeling no sense of pressure whatsoever (admittedly this is as much to do with her as it is the school, as this is a child who thought sitting the 11+ was an absolute hoot).

The school ticks the right boxes - results are good, Ofsted is outstanding (although a tad out of date, which goes with the outstanding territory it seems), but it is also genuinely a lovely school.

Meanwhile a friend who works in a local private school (well-regarded one) says the only real difference is the facilities (our school facilities are good, just not quite up there), and of course class sizes. Overall, absolutely no wish to send her children to the school she works in (admittedly she was very cross when we had this conversation, having had a parent at her work pat her and say 'aw' when she said where her kids went to school).

Completely different reason, but worth mentioning.
A very few percentage like ourselves turn down state schools in favour of a specialised education mostly offered by the private sector.

Top state schools do not compare to top private schools in terms of facilities, teaching and resources. If your priority is education, you have the opportunity to send your child to a top private school and can afford it you should do it.

DC attend an excellent primary in a leafy area with very supportive parents, good extracurricular activities, sports and music but I don't think this is comparable with what the top private schools in the area offer; we are happy with our choice though as we love travelling, going out and do not want to compromise our quality of life and they are still getting a good education.

Looking at the schools you're debating, I'd say RA all the way. Whilst I'm not in MH I live "next doors" and have friends who have/have had children in both RA and NH.

I've only heard good about RA and have a friend who've sent all their 3 kids there. They could have more kids and afford private schools for all if they wanted but they chose RA.

Some friends have just taken their DC out of NH as the quality provided was not better than an outstanding primary "next doors". But dearer. Our DC goes to an outstanding primary not far from MH and DC is loving it. And being academically challenged. Yes, they are 30 in the class but with 1 teacher and at least 1 TA (often 2) it is not an issue for DC.

It has been mentioned above and I am of the same view - we'd only go for private if it was a top school (in theory as we didn't apply but we are planning to for secondary). I think that the private options mentioned are good but not worth paying for when you have RA. Also a bigger intake means more friends to make. DC loves knowing lots of people locally outside the class ;)

Good Luck with any decision you make!

I am in a exactly the same situitation and can still not deceide which one to pick. Any opinion will be appreciated!!

The state primary was ranked the 26th of all schools in the whole England last year, which was very impressive, achived 67% Level 5 in combined English and Maths. The private school has an even better result, with 90% achived level 5.

The state school has 30 children per class, laptops on trolley, no music room, 1 PE lesson per week, only spanish from year 2; whilst the private school has only 12 children per class, music room, PC room, 3 PE lessons per week, Spanish/French from Reception, range of enrichment clubs. According to her nursery teacher's comment, DD is a bit quite in a large group, but quite active if in a small group. So a smaller class may be very beneficial to her?

BUT, the state school is only 5 minute drive from home in a nice little town, with a large outdoor playground. The private school is in the city centre, 20-30mins drive depending on traffic, has little outdoor area, and GIRLS only.

And what worries me MOST is that I am not sure if it is a good idea to send her straight to a girls-only school at 4, and spend all her rest of school life in a single-sex environment? Or would it be better to stay in a mixed state school until 7+ or 11+, to gain some experience of socializing with boys??

In terms of academic performance, both school are doing well enough to me. Private school provides more enrichment programmes but I doubt how much my DD will benefit from it in early years, and many enrichment classes can also be offered in my town too. SO is it worth of sending DD to girls-only school now, depriving her opportunity to explore the opposite sex?

BUT I also worried if it will be more difficult for her to gain a place at the private school at a later stage, as there will be more competetion and fewer places later, especially at 11+. Would it be better to secure the place at Reception now to avoid not getting a place later?

Someone I know used to have her DC's at the local Outstanding State primary. When she asked the State Primary why her DC was not performing better she was told by the teacher 'your DC is doing OK, but of course will never do as well as if she were at [particular nearby independant school] because it's just more academically focused there as it's a different sort of school". That swung it for her as she felt as though she was failing her DC by keeping her at the State Primary.

I chose the private option as the state had no green outside area to play on at all, only a small playground. Also class sizes of 30+ compared to 15.

OP I don't understand why you'd choose private if its going to be a financial struggle and you can't afford a sibling. Surely it's a no-brainer?

fwiw I've done both private and state for mine. I prefer state - education good at both but local friends and financial freedom win for me.

I have a friend who turned down her DDs place at a highly competitive Girl's school when her DD was offered a place at a local Outstanding state school. She had been on the waiting list, and lost a terms fees, but preferred the state school.

You need to compare apples with applies of both schools, and consider if the £10K fees per year is really worth the money. (£10K can buy a lot of home tuition teachers and materials.)

We sent our DD to an all girls private school, but sent her to an outstanding state school after two terms because the HT was very mean. (If we had known that beforehand, we would have avoided that school like the plague.) The state school is more caring, teachers and teachings are better, has lots of greenery and plenty of parking areas. However, the state school has 30 pupils per class, which is only 5 more than the private school's 25 per class. We used the money saved on music and sports activities for our DD. She is a lot happier now and we haven't looked back since.