just found out DS is a bully

[yakari]

Just been having an email discussion with our DS's teacher - he is 8, and we live abroad hence time zones etc. Turns out DS has been bullying kids at school - seems to be both physical (pushing, shoving) and emotional (name calling, teasing - he's a clever boy so has been also using his knowledge to show them up).

I'm shocked as much as gutted - I may be biased but to date he's always been labelled the class clown, a little quirky but generally friends with everyone. Seems to be across a range of kids, not just one but its come to head because one of the kids (who is new from January) has been struggling to make friends and been picked on by a few boys and so DS's name has come up in that.

We've been through a rough few months as a family - please note this is not an excuse for his behavior - but the reason his teacher hasn't been telling me of minor incidents which are now all coming to a head. And every email from her seems to bring up something worse. I've asked to see her next week when the kids are back in school so at the moment emails are all I've got and I don't want to intrude more into her holiday but she also obviously wants to address it too.

It came up originally last Thursday and DS and I have talked a few times and I know he is upset (for getting caught? real remorse? not understanding that his "jokes" actually hurt others?) And I've told him in no uncertain terms that it is totally unacceptable. And that actually what matters is how his actions make others feel, not whether he considers he did something bad.

If it was one kid I'd make him apologise but if he is picking on many different kids how do I do that especially as some of the things appear to have happened a few weeks ago - the other kids may not want it raked back up (but then again they might).

I guess what I'm asking is apart from talking to him, suitable punishments, apologies to the kids concerned - what else should I be doing? Any words of wisdom from teachers or other parents who've had to address this with their kids.

That must be hard to hear but you are willing to deal with it i dont think i would punish as such because the incidents have passedi would have a conversation about him being mean to other children ask him why he thinks that is ok ? wait till he is back at school to tackle the behaviour with his teacher it will show him you are a unitied front.

thanks Mrsjapyy - I agree about the united front. I wonder if its escalated because he's got away with stuff - but frankly who knows.
I'm also thinking punishments have to be from now - if it happens again. But then I worry about whether that looks like I'm ignoring whats happened in the past.
I know I sound a bit scatty but its thrown me for a loop - and of all the problems I thought we may have to deal with this wasn't one of them

sorry Mrsjayy

Working with the school is absolutely key to resolving this. Make it clear to him that now you know about the bullying you are beyond furious and that no future incidents will be tolerated by either you or the school - consequences will be X, Y or Z, whatever is most important to him, e.g no sports club, grounded, no computer, etc. There is nothing you can do about the past, except make sure the future is different. DS1 spent most of S1 at High School mucking about in class - no bullying, thankfully - so we (as in the school and DH/I) put him on a behaviour diary, with the teachers signing to say he'd behaved that day. Maybe something similar would work here?

Re the rough time you've had as a family - not sure what that is, but often lashing out this way is their way of reacting. Are you getting any help for him for that, e.g counselling? Be very factual about it - not a sympathetic "we know it's been difficult for you love, and your behaviour is only to be expected" type thing, but more a "we need to work through these issues" type thing. Would that be something worth thinking about?

Excuse grammar there!

Thanks you both of you as well
Behaviour diary sounds like a good idea and one I think his teacher would be happy to do - as a smaller kid he always responded well to the sticker chart type incentive so maybe a more grown up version of that would work.
re the Family - we've had a dying relative back home (passed away last week), and I've had the double whammy of a lot of overseas travel with that and due to work. I can so easily write this off as he was feeling sad, neglected etc but I don't think that's a fair excuse and of course means nothing to the other poor kids.
I hope once we get back into school I can get more details, and work out a plan with them

I do think letting him know that you know about past stuff and how upset you are that he did this to other children thing is if he said something to x child y child may have laughed and this will have fulled your son as you said he is the class clown. I know how angry and upset you are but let your boy know that you know what he hasbeen up to and leave it till after the holidays.

good lord never mind your grammar - my posts are complete nonsense, but hope you get the drift

God you have had a tough time too

As the parent of a child who was bullied from about that age onwards I'd say the most important thing you need to make him understand is the impact that it has on the other children not just making them sad at the point of the oush or name calling, but the impact it has on them long term. My DSs personality has changed it would seem permanently as he is approaching 15 now and went from a sunny natured confident child to one that finds it difficult to make friends, can't speak to people and is genrally withdrawn. It's devastating, I still have to drive hm an extra 20 mile round trip to school every day as we couldn't send him to High School the way he was with the people he was still scared of as he looked like a victim and although the original bullying seemed to have stopped, he would be a target by others just by his demeanor.

i am glad that you want to work with the school and do something to help the situation, it needs to be nipped in the bud as soon as possible. You also need to keep at it and encourage him to use his intellegence to be a good friend.

Initially the parents of the main ringleaders in my sons case were equally devestated and the made all the right noises but strangely after their first efforts failed, they were no longer interested and basically told me that it was my sons fault he was bullied because clearly he wanted them to through sticks at him and swear in his face.... the father of one of the boys involved tried to intimidate me in the playground too - in that case the apple clearly didn't falll far from the tree.

sorry for the typos and grammar too!

Magnum I am so sorry to hear about your son, that must be devasting to you as a parent and awful for him as well. Whilst I obviously hope we address this and stop it straight away, I can assure you this won't be something we let go.

Mrsjayy - thanks. Have to be honest and say I'm feel a bit battered before this even came to light. But as I say not an excuse for the kind of behavior. Also think you make a good point about other kids laughing along (which makes it even worse for the kid being picked on) but which I can see DS taking as encouragement.

The thing is its a really small group of boys - odd year group lots of girls - so have always been very inclusive of each other and as an international school kids come and go all the time, so new comers usually fit in.

och I've given up on grammar and typos on this thread - feel free to let loose and we'll worry about the correct grammar later

I also think an important point for him to understand is that it's okay not to like everone or get on with everyone (although the main bully's parents were sort of in our social circle, DS never really liked him neither did we, he used to be child minded by our next door neighbour and she moved him on quite quickly as he tended to cause strife not just over the fence, DS2 who is a year younger than DS1 and is a pretty good judge of character wouldn't go near him.

The parents when the first found out about the bullying wanted my son to go over and play etc as they thought it would help if they were friends - I can appreciate the sentiment, but in this case that wouldn't have worked, all we wanted was for him to leave our son alone, there were enough other people for them both to play with that they needn't mix in the same circles but this childs answer was basically to gather all the other kids and get them to join in with him leaving DS1 isolated.

With yours being a smaller school in terms of friend options, it is maybe more important to encourage your son to try to be friends with everyone, it would be equally devesatating if he was the one who got left out - that really wouldn't help. It really does sound like the school and you are both on board with getting this issue sorted. The wider impact is that I still can't see the bully without wanting to punch him/run him over. So it's had an impact on our whole family. To make it worse, this boy has now become very succesful in a sporting way (represents the country) and gets regular praise in the press. I hope that it sorts him out to be fair but it sticks in my craw.

I'd be receptive to what ever the school wants to do as well as reinforcing it at home. Personally i wanted an open meeting with the parents of the bullies and the parents of the bullied and all the children where we could explain the impact to both the parents and the children, the school wouldn't go for it though as they thought there was too much potential for it to degenerate.

I'd echo what Magnum said about the long term effects - I was bullied early on in High School, and at 46 still have echoes of the impact it had on my confidence. I've had to work very, very hard over the years to overcome that.

It sounds as if you're determined not to let him away with it, which is really good. Definitely wait until you hear what the teacher has to say in person, but the fact that she's emailing through the holidays would suggest it's come to a head and needs intervention.

How does he seem, now he knows you know? I know you've talked, but do you get the feeling he is genuinely remorseful?

You've obviously had a rough time - I really hope things get better in the coming months

I am so pleased that you are taking this seriously, that the school informed you, and that you want it sorted. Your DC may find it difficult to back down on his position in class, and you need to give him stratagies to help - walk away - bite your tongue - the other kids will be expecting him to Behave normally so their support will be key. Can u change his friendship group? Can you look at buddy not bully schemes? I hope u sort it. I wish the parents of the girls who bullied my daughter had the same attitude as you. Good luck.

Thanks so much to everyone for your response (sorry time zones got me out of the loop on posting back). Especially thanks to those of you who have suffered from a bully or had a child who did, and the insight you gave.

DS got very tearful last night when we talked about it - some of the specifics he swore were accidents and I do feel that perhaps by the school letting smaller things go early on (and I do understand why they didn't want to bother us) its escalated and now anything accident or otherwise is getting built up. Having said that he needs to know that's what happens when you end up getting a reputation for mean behavior - and it will make people judge you.

He's headed off to a play date today (we've been very quiet and at home over Easter) so hopefully he'll let off some steam in a good way.
He seems to have taken in the message that its unacceptable and its how your actions make others feel that matters. Lets see - especially next week when its back to school.

Thanks again to everyone

I'm sorry you're having such a hard time, OP.

I experienced bullying when I was at school. Comparatively mild bullying, I realise now, but it really eroded my confidence and I am still quite insecure now - 30 years later. I agree with the poster who said that you need to help your ds understand the real impact of what he is doing on other kids.

However, in addition to this, I think you need to get to the bottom of why he is doing this. I'm not suggesting that you make excuses for his behaviour, because there are none, but nevertheless, you need to try to understand his motivations. What is he getting out of the bullying behaviour that makes him want to do it? Is he just angry and lashing out? Is he trying to look cool or get a laugh from the other kids? Is he trying to cover up his own insecurities by belittling other people? He may not know himself, but I think you need to explore this together and then look at other (better!) ways of addressing these issues.

What he has done is very wrong, but he is still a little boy. You should certainly let him know that his behaviour is unacceptable, but show him some compassion too. This is probably just a phase, and if you handle it right, he will emerge having learnt some valuable lessons.

I think he must be unhappy or low in confidence to be bulling

The idea that children who bully are necessarily unhappy or low in confidence has been disproved. Often it is children with high self esteem who bully.

Agree with kesstrel - plenty of evidence to show bullies often have very high self esteem.

This must have been a horrible shock for you but I think it is great you want to tackle this behaviour and are not just ignoring it. My son was bullied and the other parent just ignore it I had to move my child from school.
I agree with above tell him you know and you are going to speak to his teacher. Talk to him about how it makes him feel, how he thinks the other child feels and how it is not acceptable. A behaviour diary is a great idea and show him you and the teacher are united and only want the best for him and the other child. Goodluck such a hard one at what seems to be a difficult time for you x x

Very sad for the kids that are being bullied; my brother is an adult now and I feel all the bullying he went through all his primary and secondary are still affecting his confidence through adult life. If I was the mother of a child who is being bullied and the situation doesn't change I will pull him out of school straight away. I know OP is worried and trying to solve this problem. I will be very upset and would not tolerate thus behaviour

Thanks again - once I get a few more facts I do think I need to spend some time working out the why, but honestly my gut tells me this is a class clown who got a few more laughs by cross over the line to mean and just didn't stop and think about the impact. Then when he wasn't necessarily pulled up on it - carried on. I could be wrong but that's my instinct.
Not that its an excuse and its just as wrong - if not actually meaner - to have done something for laughs but I can sort of see how this could happen.
I watched him yesterday with a large group of kids and he just seemed like his "normal" self, mixing in, not dominating anything, just playing and it all feels a bit surreal.
We've talked a few more times but not in depth - I need to get the facts from the teacher next week. I did email with her briefly re behavior diary and she does seem open to that so I do think that's the way we may go to keep track on things whilst of course if he does step out of line we'll do appropriate punishments.