7 Year Old Working at Level 3B for Maths and 3A for English

[UltimateMathsT]

In terms of KS1 SATs, how would you adequately assess a 7 year old child , already attaining secure Level 3 in both Maths and English?
Are there any extension assessment provisions for the "More Able"?

A Year 6 working to move from level 3B to 4C is highly unlikely to have any SEN ... What an odd idea!

Indeed mrz - but as it's your own idea perhaps you should own it! I said "addition needs" rather than SEN precisely because I wasn't just referring to SEN.

A child starting year 6 at 3b is working at least 2 years behind minimum expectations (perhaps more given that over 40% now achieve L5 and L4b is the minimum expected & as you say yourself it's going to be a struggle for this hypothetical child to even achieve L4c).

There may be many reasons why: language barriers, emotional stress, illness, truanting & many, many more, certainly far more reasons than SEN alone - although clearly SEN will be a factor for a proportion of children at this level in year 6.

If a child is at 3b at the start of year 6 with no additional needs at all then frankly WTF have the school been doing? And how will such children currently in year 5 or below fare next year when the bar is set that much higher?

It seems strange that L3 children's recorded point score must equate to 3b but any L4 point score can be recorded - my mistake if so.

Raiseonline converted all L3s to L3c for progression. So whilst a school would track and assess at 3c, 3b and 3a RAISE did not

L3 at KS1 comes from teacher assessments. L4 at KS2 comes from tests. Those tests record a L4 or now also a L4b.

It certainly isn't my idea diamondage!
A child entering Y6 at level 3B is highly unlikely to have SEN!

3B certainly isn't 2years behind!

It certainly isn't my idea diamondage!

It was you that first introduced the term SEN though. The inference being that I was suggesting that children starting year 6 on a 3b had SEN, which I was specifically avoiding by using the term 'additional needs'.

However you are absolutely right, 3b at the end of year 5 / start of year 6 is only around 1 year behind 'expected' levels. I really hadn't taken on board that a child achieving a L3 in year 2 may be working 1, 2 or 3 full years ahead of the 'expected' level. That the c, b and a assigned to L3 covered 3 full years of progress. Apologies.

OK we will use AEN ... Yes these children often have an additional need! that is they need time to mature and experience a few more birthdays!

One thing I don't understand in how a child is assessed is the gathering evidence part of it. If a child is not given work at level 4 how can the teacher gather evidence that the child is level 4?

Why wouldn't the child be given work of an appropriate level?

Because they are only doing up to level 3 work in the class.

Then the teacher isn't meeting the needs of the child.

and no the child can't be assessed as level 4 if they aren't working at level 4 ... Poor practice

From my experience and from reading other threads, it really is a lottery as to whether or not a school will do this. What should happen and what does happen sometimes widely diverge.

Many parents find themselves arguing their child is at a higher level, but without evidence they are working at that level they will not be taught at that level, in which case there is no evidence that they are working at that level. By the time they have been assessed as having completed the level below the child has already moved on. In some cases the gap between a child's assessed level and their actual level gradually widens.

and there are many parents who believe their child is working at a higher levels when in fact they aren't.

And some parents claim their child is ahead because they actually are. The problem is how to distinguish between the two when the schools will not test.

Just in the interest of fairness my son was classed as SEN but was GT. You can be working above your chronological level or above the SATs level whilst have special educational needs.

The school has to test at the end of each Key Stage ... They don't have a choice.

At the end of year 2 they are tested either on level 2 and below or level 3. I was told if dd scored high on level 3 she would be tested to level 4 and was then told although she had scored high they did not get the results until a week before the end of year, so there was no time to test on a level 4 paper. Hence she was assessed at level 3 and was taught at this level the following year. It is then 4 years until the next assessment and is capped at level 6.

Sorry but that is total rubbish! Key Stage 1 tests are administered and marked by the school ... They have the results instantly ... There is no waiting!

They told me they were sent away for marking. Did this used to be the case and has changed in the last few years?

No Key Stage 1 tests have always been internally marked

If that is the case dd was deliberately kept at a lower level by lying to us! Could there possibly be any other explanation? Are you sure of this? Are some sent away? I really do not know what to say. I cannot believe a school would do this.

Yes I'm sure ... They have never been sent away

I'm sure, mrz, that you are a conscientious teacher, so I hope you can understand why my opinion of what state primary schools will do to make their life easier has just sunk to a new low.

It is absolutely shocking that a school would lie to parents.