State -v- Private

[aim1ee]

Having experienced both I feel in a position to comment. Our views - the assumption that because you are paying independent school fees that the education and care must be better, is an absolute myth. State education is excellent; provided by qualified teachers often with teaching assistants/trainee teachers in the class together, after school clubs and sport, breakfast clubs, regular sight of books, pastoral care and parental involvement. Especially good advice on internet safety and how numeracy and literacy are taught - even parents' lessons! Most special needs and disabled children are integrated into a happy community. On the other hand we found private schools are elitest, one or two really rude and nasty parents, inadequate leadership by Heads, only one class teacher (sometimes unqualified), short staffed, absent pastoral support, inadequate school reports downloaded from the internet with a few chosen phrases slotted in, school's own policies not adhered to, expensive uniform some of which went missing, overlong holidays. Without doubt State is best.

My local secondary school has a pass rate of @55% A-C's.The local private school has a pass rate of 92% + A-C's.High proportion of middle class high achievers in SATs tests in both.Private school very mildly selective but a pretty mixed intake.

Where would you send your child?
Even taking into consideration other factors affecting results its a bit of a no-brainer surely.

Oh purhlease, canny!

Go and look up the comprehensive school, come back and tell us how many low, middle and high achievers it has, and how many kids on free school meals. Then we can talk.

And while you're about it, please could you expand on this sentence-"Private school very mildly selective but a pretty mixed intake."

I'm speaking from personal experience Hakluyt.I have children who have attended both.Mildly selective means a school that has an entrance exam that everyone passes ( allegedly).This means a real mix of bright and not so bright kids.The only difference is the parents have enough money to pay.Incidentally a lot of parents are not middle class and wealthy at the private school.How come the results are so much better?

 I am really not prejudiced either way.My kids have attended both - some private stinkers,some good state schools.But how come the local Comprehensive is doing so badly with a high level of very good SATs levels.Very white area,very low ratio of free dinners.v

What are the %ages of low, middle and high attainers at the comprehensive school?

And a school with any sort of entrance exam and fees is selective. It will only have better off, privileged children. So will, by definition, get better results than a comprehensive. It is daft to say the two schools will have an even remotely similar cohort.

Because the one thing you can GUARANTEE at a private school is that there's not going to be anyone in class who might disrupt your child's learning. If they do - out they go.
It's like privately educated children walk around in a sort of purified social bubble at school.

Mini, I think you have been to a private school?

Maybe yours was a purified bubble, my experience was very different and other friends who went to different ones.

Humans are humans whatever they sheath themselves in, whatever house they live in however much money they have or don't have.

The children of such parents will have as many issues as those who go to state schools.

I could reel off the list of all the different issues people had, people I might add who were in the school from vary different backgrounds, and no great wealth at all. Normal average houses...

TBH depending on the school I think some of them will hold onto pupils with bad behviour to keep a bum on seat and money coming in.

There is simply no reality to the pictures being painted.

"The children of such parents will have as many issues as those who go to state schools."

So what's the point of going to private school then?

Seems to me the only point of paying all that money is to keep your child in a purified bubble!

The only way to keep your child in a purified bubble, would be to home ed them.

Ive said it on here before but I pay for all the extras. Do I think they'd do just as well academically at our local very pushy 'outstanding ' state primary? Absolutely! Would they get all the extras? All the fabulous enrichment experiences? Absolutely not!

Hakluyt, absolutely it's a bubble! No question. But I'm not paying to get an affluent bubble. More (in my head at least) a bubble where school is exciting and wonderful and my kids love it to bits. It is an affluent bubble of course. No denying that. But if school wrote to me tomorrow saying they had found a way to offer even more bursaries from our fees or that the next 3yrs worth of fee increases would go towards bursaries, I'd be first to email and applaud it.

I am considering changing mine 2 non-selective prep school in the North of England. Not because I have any complaints against the state primary DS attends, not really, or because I think that the teachers in the prep are necessary any better, but rather because as NancyJones said, I want those extras for my kids. And I could have them now, but logistically it would be a nightmare.

Hakluyt, absolutely it's a bubble! No question.

Nancy what sort of bubble are you paying for, are you aware that your child will be mixing with children from difficult backgrounds, that paying for private school will not insulate your child from this, as no money will ever insulate children from their parents issues. And parents will have issues no matter how wealthy or poor they are.

Some Parents will have nasty, bitter divorces.
Some Parents will drop dead suddenly.
Some Parents will have long and painful deaths.
Etc

Parents will do things to fuck up their children wherever your child is at school.

You cant buy your way out of this.

No one thinks children at private school go skipping in every day without a care in the world?

If I was choosing private I would be looking for warm atmosphere, an excellent head teacher, variety of things to do, extra curricular things and at this age - primary, a cosy feel. ( and smaller class sizes)

All these things ^ are provided by our local state primary and if we won lottery I would not move my DD.

Having spend most of my teaching career (13 years) teaching in state secondaries -some rough, some lovely, I have now taught in a private school for 5 months. I have managed to cover 3 times as much work already, due to better behaviour and smaller class sizes. It really is that simple. It's not an expensive private school, is very small and I would not even consider sending my son to a state school now. I'll just do without an extra holiday a year. Definitely worth it in my opinion.

???
They're in a bubble because the majority of children they know have lots of material possessions and nice houses and lots of holidays etc. They don't know any different.
There are plenty of divorced parents at school and kids whose parents are cash rich and time poor. Fortunately, this doesn't apply to my children. We never know what might happen but for the moment, they are in a little isolated bubble both at home and at school.
I'm not trying to buy my way out if anything. I am trying (and succeeding) at buying myself into a school that offer so much enrichment and fun that my kids adore it.
I teach in the state sector. I know state schools can occasionally have fab visitors or workshops etc but none can afford these regularly and in all sorts of subjects. None have do much sport and music on offer. None can offer such a range of after school clubs that include orienteering, stage direction, ballet or animation.

It's like privately educated children walk around in a sort of purified social bubble at school.

^ This was the bubble quote I was referring too which Hack picked up on.
Which I responded too. I was not having a dig at you.

I am trying (and succeeding) at buying myself into a school that offer so much enrichment and fun that my kids adore it.

Yes, absolutely, but the other children - some of them will be having problems at home ie there is no such thing as a purified social bubble.

In regular private schools there will be a mix of children there, not all of them will go on lots of holidays, not all will have nice houses and not all will have lots of material possessions.

Yes, but here in Cheshire it really is that that. Where I live the state educated children also have lots of hols and material possessions. South Manchester/NE Cheshire is a bubble in itself. I have about 15 private schools within about 5miles of my home. My local state prary has been known to raise 20k at a Christmas fayre offering things like a box at Man city stadium for the day and a man united shirt signed by full first team. Parents bid 2k on it. And this is my local state primary.
I'm from Surrey and it stuns me regularly.

Local state primary

Ok, just checked and they actually raised 17k not 20k that year. Usually around 8-12 though. Still far more that the majority of one form state primaries.

Of course you are right Knitted but I don't for a second believe that anyone pays for private education thinking they'll protect their DC from other people's lives, but rather for the breadth of education that money buys.

And yes, it is unfair and sure there may be many state schools that do offer this, but most don't, not regularly. So parents who are able to pay choose whether to do so by arranging the logistics of providing those extra curricular experiences themselves, or pay for it within the school environment.

I don't for a second believe that anyone pays for private education thinking they'll protect their DC from other people's lives, but rather for the breadth of education that money buys.

I agree.

And I disagree that even if people want too, they can buy their dc a purified bubble and say again, they can only provide a social bubble with home education.

Nancy Are you in that uber wealthy area...near elderly edge etc..even then after all that, children will have parents with problems, and no one can insulate against that.

We are not in Alderley Edge, no. I'm in Wimslow which is about 3miles away. Not über wealthy either, though not much poverty here either if I'm honest.
And of course there are kids at my DC's school with problem caused by benign neglect, bereavement, abuse (no evidence but it's a big school so statistically likely) But thankfully, my kids aren't really exposed to that too much. Sadly, kids hide these things well and my kids aren't aware of anything like their affecting any of their friends.

Quotation from a Head of English who moved from a comp to a prep school, and was asked how he found his new job, "Wonderful! No endless govt forms to fill in - and it's nearly half term and nobody's told me to 'fuck off' yet!"

What an extraordinarily shallow person.