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Original poster

Can someone explain phonics to me?

113 replies

ChangeYouFucker · 10/12/2014 20:40

My DD is in reception and I am dutifully doing her sounds and blending words with her.

However I've got no idea what is happening and feel a bit Blush about it.

So I'm looking for the wise MN education bods to explain it to me!

I don't want a debate about phonics (lots of other threads with those on).

I just want a Dummies guide to phonics and how I help my DD with them.

Ta very muchly.

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mrz · 11/12/2014 16:35

It's very easy to teach a 4 year old how to decode/encode he, me, she, we, be ... you explain that the spelling cab be the sound /e/ but in these words it is the spelling for the sound /ee/ and that the spelling in my and by is the sound /igh/ they don't find it a problem in my experience
MaizieD they are more likely to need to know for spelling at first but four year olds in reception will be meeting these words.

mrz · 11/12/2014 16:39

MrsKCastle you might find it arrogant but schools must follow the statutory curriculum which says that children should be taught to use phonics.

mrz · 11/12/2014 17:12

If you teach one word by sight then the pupil can read one word by sight if you teach them what they need to know to decode the word they can apply that knowledge to countless words

mrz · 11/12/2014 17:13

Sorry MrsKCastle I didn't realise you were quoting

maizieD · 11/12/2014 17:26

but four year olds in reception will be meeting these words.

Will they mrz? I'm a bit surprised (was thinking of YR rather than Y1) but at least I know that in your school they'll be approaching them as part of their phonics learning Grin

mrz · 11/12/2014 17:47

Young children often want to write about "my" granny or "my" rabbit or when "we" went to the shops long before they would meet the words in scheme books. Makes sense to teach how to encode as required.

CokeFan · 11/12/2014 17:54

mrz how do you decode "queue"? I just told my DD what it was in the end because I couldn't think of how to explain it.

Ferguson · 11/12/2014 18:05

You have been given plenty of 'advice'. Here is a bit more:

An inexpensive and easy to use book, that can encourage children with reading, spelling and writing, and really help them to understand Phonics, is reviewed in the MN Book Reviews section. Just search ‘Phonics’.

Iggly · 11/12/2014 18:07

It's very easy to teach a 4 year old how to decode/encode he, me, she, we, be ... you explain that the spelling cab be the sound /e/ but in these words it is the spelling for the sound /ee/

But how does that get away from learning by sight? So I will explain that to my ds but ultimately he has to recognise "we" (he knows the w sound already and that the "e" sound doesn't usually apply). So in my head this is by sight, with an added explanation.

mrz · 11/12/2014 18:16

It applies in many words. Children are taught the alternative spellings for sounds and how the same spelling can represent different sounds. They are taught to try the most common first then to try the alternatives ... So obviously /h/ /e/ isn't right so try /h/ /ee/

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 11/12/2014 18:20

coke 'que' is one way of writing the sound /k/, then 'ue' represents the sound /yoo/.

It's very rare way of writing the /k/ sound and mostly occurs at the end of words like 'plaque' I think. If she has a reasonable grasp of phonics she will probably already know 'ue'.

CokeFan · 11/12/2014 18:28

Thanks, Rafa

Iggly · 11/12/2014 18:54

OK, i am going to concede I don't know what I'm talking about and mrz does! This is after reading with ds and him giving up on some words calling them "tricky" Hmm (literally ten minutes ago).

He hasn't been taught alternative spellings for sounds so they've just been giving them a list of words to learn every week (we/be for example). But now as he's trying to read he's not got all of the grounding to decode and is thinking he can see words which are trick and doesn't try.

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 11/12/2014 19:08

Iggy, do you think you have enough knowledge to point out the bit that he knows and explaining/teaching the bits he doesn't?

He might need a bit of help and encouragement at first to get over the not trying. But he should eventually get back to a point where he will have a go.

mrz · 11/12/2014 19:37

Iggly there isn't any reason why parents should know but teachers and schools should! and they should be supporting parents to support their child.

Iggly · 11/12/2014 20:12

No I don't have enough knowledge - but I've bought the jolly phonics book which is what they're doing at school so I know the sounds as he is learning them. He loves the stories for each sound.

Where I'm falling down is the stuff that mrz does in terms of explaining. I don't like the term "tricky words" as it implies that they're hard.

I will chat to the teacher about it because ds is like a sponge - absolutely loves books (he loves the library and being read to) but he doesn't seem to like the books that come home (Biff and chip) and it becomes a chore. I want to nurture his love of books and learning and reading but want to get it right!

Sorry my tone has completely changed in this thread - it was literally today we sis reading and it was such an eye opener hearing ds talk about tricky words etc.

Iggly · 11/12/2014 20:12

*did reading

mrz · 11/12/2014 20:31

Tricky words is a term coined by Sue Lloyd when she wrote Jolly Phonics over twenty years ago to identify the common words that contained sounds/spellings not formally taught at that point but over that time has become distorted in the minds of many to mean sight words.

maizieD · 11/12/2014 21:03

Sue's idea was that the word was 'decodable, but with a tricky bit'; i.e the grapheme that children hadn't yet been taught because it belonged to a later stage in the programme.

Ellle · 11/12/2014 21:13

mrz:
I can see what you mean with this explanation for tricky words; it totally makes sense to me.

But (very curious to learn more about phonics) I just checked the link that AuntieStella posted (the MN introduction to phonics); and under the heading for “Help your child learn to read with phonics” there is another subheading called “Tricky words”. And what’s the first thing I notice?

“Encourage your child to read the 'tricky words'. Tricky words contain letters that don't represent their normal sounds and these are taught separately. Children can use their phonics to help them read part of the words, but tricky parts will need to be learned by sight.”

Surely this only adds to the confusion!!

mrz · 11/12/2014 21:17

Yes it certainly does add to the confusion and isn't at all helpful. I would always recommend looking to the authors of the main phonic programmes for guidance.

Original poster
ChangeYouFucker · 11/12/2014 21:26

Wow!!!

3 pages, how on earth did that happen??? Sorry not abandoned you all just a looooong day at work.

Seriously why does the subject of phonics create such a debate?

Thanks to those who have offered practical help with links etc.

To add my view into the debate...

My spelling is shit, my reading of unusual words is shit, my pronunciation of unknown words is shit. And I blame how I was taught to read and spell the 'old way'. I really hope that my DC have a better experience than me.

OP posts:
Mashabell · 12/12/2014 07:06

Mrz: It's very easy to teach a 4 year old how to decode/encode he, me, she, we, be

Parents would not be asking questions about them if it was very easy.
They would be easier if e did not have a different sound in the most common English word of all: the.

Mashabell · 12/12/2014 07:17

Mrz: If you teach one word by sight then the pupil can read one word by sight.

This implies a very odd view of learning to read by sight - as if this has to involve treating the word as some kind of picture and paying no attention to any of the letters in it.

If u teach he, me, she, we, be as an odd little group, with an unusual /ee/ sound at the end, the children still have to take note of h, m, sh, w, b.

Apart from that, in the end all teaching of reading comes down to helping children to learn to recognise all common words by sight, as we all do now.

mrz · 12/12/2014 07:30

That implies you have never taught in a reception class masha