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Can someone explain phonics to me?

113 replies

ChangeYouFucker · 10/12/2014 20:40

My DD is in reception and I am dutifully doing her sounds and blending words with her.

However I've got no idea what is happening and feel a bit Blush about it.

So I'm looking for the wise MN education bods to explain it to me!

I don't want a debate about phonics (lots of other threads with those on).

I just want a Dummies guide to phonics and how I help my DD with them.

Ta very muchly.

OP posts:
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maizieD · 11/12/2014 11:00

Which is by sight surely- because children will need to know that rule and the only way is by looking at specific words?

No it's not. It is teaching them that 'e' is a way of spelling the /ee/ sound and it is, in fact, a spelling which is used in many English words. The reason it causes so much angst is that the words you cite are from the much misunderstood HFW list which tend, wrongly, to be taught as though there is something especially difficult about them. There isn't; they are just words which can be taught through the decoding and blending route just like any other word.

Ds knows his w/b/m sounds but using phonics would not work.

I suspect that you really mean that your DS knows that those letters represent the /w/, /b/ & /m/ sounds. He should also, at some stage learn that those sounds can be represented by 'u' (quick), 'bb', (rubber) and 'mm' and 'mb' (summer, comb), which is no different in principle from the fact that the /ee/ sound can be represented by 'ee', 'e', 'ea', 'i', 'ie', 'y' and 'ei'.

This learning is spread over time. The alternative spellings are introduced systematically and children given plenty of practice in using them. The HFW lists muddle this because alternative sound spellings are introduced out of sequence; often so out of sequence that children haven't even been taught the principles that a sound can be spelled more than one way and that a spellling may spell more than one sound. Of course it all looks a bit senseless and difficult if you don't understand this.

Thayt is why I dislike the HFW lists so much; they are mostly perfectly 'normal' words and easy to read and spell but the way they are often introduced at an inappropriate stage of children's learning causes more difficulties than they are worth.

There are actually very few words in the English lexicon which your children are likely to encounter in the early stages of learning to read which have completely unique & possibly bizarre seeming sound spellings. Unfortunately some of them are very useful words which children encounter in text early on, words such as 'one', 'two', 'are', 'of', 'were', &, 'who'.

Learning to read is spread out over a couple of years in most programmes, though, as I said earlier, many children show an ability to 'self teach' once they have grasped the priniciples. They will also respond well to 'incidental' phonics teaching if they encounter and unknown sound spelling. In a decent SP programme the introduction of the HFWs from the YR/1 list is spread out over that period so that children are not overfaced by them.

That is also why 'decodable' texts are used for practice, it doesn't present children with completely unknown sound spellings.

This explains it in more detail:
www.spelfabet.com.au/blog/

PastSellByDate · 11/12/2014 11:03

Hi Change:

First piece of advice is talk to the school and find out what phonics scheme they are using. Our school, for example, used Jolly Phonics - and it had a lovely series of colouring books which reviewed the various sounds letters make alone or in groups and also had the old fashioned 3 lines and guidance on how to form print letters.

Oxford Owl READING has all sorts of information to support phonics/ early reading - and free e-books: it's entirely free so worth an explore: www.oxfordowl.co.uk/home/reading-owl/reading

Oxford Owl on phonics: www.oxfordowl.co.uk/for-home/reading-site/expert-help/phonics-made-easy

HTH

Cedar03 · 11/12/2014 11:44

My daughter's school sent home a letter telling us which letters or groups of letters they were learning each week.

The very common words which don't fit the sounding out approach were taught as 'tricky' words - for example 'was' - and they were given a list of those to remember as well. The teacher told me that the children would learn to remember that they were different and how to identify them.

They were also taught the different sounds that a letter can make and I used to encourage my daughter by saying 'what's the other sound that letter can make?'. So that she could decode the words by trying them a different way.

The best thing to do is to keep reading and encouraging them. It feels hard work in the early days when they're having to sound out every single letter but suddenly one day you realise that they are putting more and more of the words together themselves.

maizieD · 11/12/2014 11:53

The very common words which don't fit the sounding out approach were taught as 'tricky' words - for example 'was' - and they were given a list of those to remember as well.

Were you given a whole lot of these words in one go or just a very few at a time?

NoSundayWorkingPlease · 11/12/2014 12:15

But 'concrete,' is fully and easily decodable

Really?

Ds knows all his phonics but his sounding out came out 'con - cret' rhyming with 'wet'. Which was meaningless to him.

He had to be told the word was concrete and how to pronounce it. And after looking at the word a few times and me telling him what it sounded like, he can now read it.

That's learning to read a word by sight as far as I'm concerned, not decoding a word in it's entirety because of phonics knowledge.

NoSundayWorkingPlease · 11/12/2014 12:17

Another for ds2 is 'night' - sounded out as 'nig - hut'. Again meaningless when he uses his phonics.

But he can now read that word in any text because he's learnt it from sight, by looking at it whilst I read the word to him - phonics had nothing to do with it.

FaintlyMacabre · 11/12/2014 12:29

But why not show him that igh makes an 'ai' sound, then he can read night, sight, light, flight, fright etc? This seems like the very essence of phonics to me.

CokeFan · 11/12/2014 12:30

Night is n/igh/t. I think ours learnt the igh sound fairly early on.
Concrete has split digraph e_e at the end to make the ee sound.

Our school does "tricky" or high frequency words but has explained that they are decodable, just not with the phonics knowledge that they have at the time when the word is first introduced. They're just looking for plausible spellings at the moment (year 1) but they want the "tricky" words spelt correctly. I'm not entirely happy with the approach but my DD is progressing well anyway.

The only word I really had trouble with for my DD was "queue". She sometimes has trouble with words that aren't in her vocabulary. She can sound them out but doesn't always pick the right sound so she might pick a long oo sound rather than the oo in good for example.

HumphreyCobbler · 11/12/2014 12:38

our phonic code IS complicated. It baffles me that people use this as a reason not to teach it at all. Surely this is even more reason to teach it explicitly?

OP, sorry, you still seem to have a slight debate going on Blush

Also, I think I am correct in saying that RWI does not advocate reading words through sight, but it does have some 'tricky' words, with more advanced phonics, that are brought in to make the early reading books more interesting. IME the children cope well with this explanation. At no point should the teacher say that the word is not decodable.

Feenie · 11/12/2014 12:42

I've seen a video of Ruth Miskin advocating red words learned as wholes. I was Shock.

HumphreyCobbler · 11/12/2014 12:58

I am too Feenie! That is not what I was taught when I trained RWI. Perhaps she has seen the error of her ways.

NoSundayWorkingPlease · 11/12/2014 12:59

But why not show him that igh makes an 'ai' sound, then he can read night, sight, light, flight, fright etc? This seems like the very essence of phonics to me

I think my point's being missed tbh.

What then happens with 'eight'? I'm going to blow his poor little mind when that comes up.

My only point is that I don't agree that children don't/shouldn't learn any words from sight....Especially with early readers. Regardless of how you teach reading, phonics and the rules of English spelling/reading are full of inconsistencies and contradictions.

Both of my dc have learnt several words by sight, words that are beyond what they would be 'expected' to be able to read iyswim, in addition to their known phonics.

Ds1 is 6 and into factual reading - lots of new, unknown words in his kids encyclopaedia that he picks up, that are difficult to sound with phonics. Actually, that's a good example...it's ds1's favourite book ATM and so often read that he can recognise/read the word 'encyclopaedia' in any context.

There is no phonics that've gone into that learning - it's just a word he now recognises.

And with some words, at age 6, it's enough that he can read them from memory. I don't see the need to break them down to the nth degree and hammer the phonics into him too.

PastSellByDate · 11/12/2014 13:29

Hi - forgot to mention BBC Alphablocks - which has sweet little songs (very catchy) that helps to explain sounding out letters: www.bbc.co.uk/cbeebies/alphablocks - select WATCH Clips by pressing forward arrow and you can choose whichever sound your DS is currently working with or struggling with.

NoSunday

Try watching this: www.bbc.co.uk/cbeebies/grownups/programme-extra/alphablocks-guide-to-long-vowels - concrete includes a magic 'e' at the end which means instead of decoding crete as cret - the e at the end makes the e between r and t long - so crete like the island Crete.

Now some teachers do like 'Magic E' and other's don't, but this made sense for DD2 when 4 - and whilst she was watching the Magic E video: and helped DD1 who was a struggling reader to make a real breakthrough.

HTH

Iggly · 11/12/2014 13:39

It is quicker to teach my ds words like "we/be/me" by sight - which is how he's been taught - than to painfully go through the phonics rules before he gets it. And that is how he is taught in reception.

Iggly · 11/12/2014 13:43

I think the thing to remember is that for most children, English is their first language so using a pure phonics approach isn't necessary I.e. you can bend the rules and teach some things by sight. My ds knows these words in speech and to keep him interested in reading, then I prefer that the teacher just has them do it that way.
But for reading generally, phonics is brilliant. Ds's school use jolly phonics and he's getting it quickly.

NoSundayWorkingPlease · 11/12/2014 13:47

I agree Iggly.

maizieD · 11/12/2014 13:51

I've seen a video of Ruth Miskin advocating red words learned as wholes. I was shock.

When this was brought up with Ruth she said that she was trying to simplify things a bit as it was a video intended for parents. I hope that she regrets it now as it isn't what is plainly advocated in the RWI manuals!

maizieD · 11/12/2014 13:53

And that is how he is taught in reception

Well, it shouldn't be! It's just that YR is part of Early Years and the National curriculum only applies at KS1 and beyond. So EY are free to b*gger up phonics instruction in whatever way they like.

NoSundayWorkingPlease · 11/12/2014 14:03

So maize - how do you teach a 4 year old 'we' 'be' 'my' etc if not by sight?

I think if it's proven to 'work' - as is definitely the case with my reception age child - it's very arrogant to say they 'shouldn't' be taught that way.

NoSundayWorkingPlease · 11/12/2014 14:04

I don't know any phonics law that is routinely taught to 4 year olds that explains 'my' for instance.

TitsForBrains · 11/12/2014 14:08

Not sure if this if any use but my DH created a free app on iPhone and Android to help learn phonics.

It's free of charge and there are no adverts or anything. He did it to help our daughter.

If you search for 'Family Phonics UK' on the app store or on android you should find it.

MrsKCastle · 11/12/2014 14:22

how do you teach a 4 year old 'we' 'be' 'my' etc if not by sight?

You teach them that the letter 'e' can make the sound /ee/ as well as /e/. And that it often makes that sound in some common, short words. You show them the words be/me/she/he/we and practise sounding them out e.g. /sh/ /ee/- she. Next time they see one of the words in a text, they might remember or they might use /e/. So you say, 'yes, 'e' often represents /e/, but do you remember that we learned it can sometimes represent another sound? Yes, /ee/, now let's sound it out again, this time using /ee/.'

The same with 'my'- link to similar words e.g. fly/sky/by/shy. One syllable words ending in 'y' nearly always use the 'igh' sound I believe.

MrsKCastle · 11/12/2014 14:30

it's very arrogant to say they 'shouldn't' be taught that way

The evidence shows that more children succeed with a pure phonics approach than with mixed methods. If we teach children that some words can't be sounded out and must be learned by heart, they are more likely to give up when they see a new word. If we teach them that all words can be sounded out, but may have a tricky section, they will be willing to give new words a go. If it's a word that they recognize when spoken, they may be able to work it out even if they don't get the tricky bits on the first attempt. If they haven't heard it spoken before, they will have a rough idea what it sounds like, which is better than no idea at all!

Iggly · 11/12/2014 14:56

They haven't buggered it up. Not according to Ofsted!

The problem I have is the phonics purists. Phonics improves reading outcomes for all children but most children would learn to read just fine using a mixture of methods. ..I doubt very much that my child is disadvantaged by learning we/me/be by sight because later on he will he taught the rest of the rules. However being only at the early stages, he would be quite frankly bored with reading only via phonics.

maizieD · 11/12/2014 15:32

I'm not sure why a 4y old would need to know how to read 'we' 'be' 'my' etc