Ability levels

[wishiwasonthebeach]

Do teachers tell parents which ability level table children are working on?

My son is in year 1 and I know that each table has an animal name, I imagine that they must be working in ability sets but I have no idea what sort if level he is on.

Parents evening was very general, the teacher mostly told me what they have been working on and some targets for literacy. When I tried to find out more about my son in particular she was quite dismissive. I don't know if I should ask her about the tables arrangement or if that's not appropriate.

[poppy70]

Schools are to be judged on progress made by the children since reception to the end of KS2 and within one year. The 'old' levels are still being used by some schools and so are various other assessment models such as criterion. Many schools have just regiged the levels to reflect the new curriculum.

The 3e's are the byword now. Emerging, expected, exceeding. and this is by the expectations of the year. But a child who comes into Y1 doing 50/60% of the Y1 work is currently exceeding YR expectations but if they leave Y1 being able to do all Y1 work they are expected for Y1 and are deemed to be making less than expected progress). The parents will presumably told that there child is below expectations and working at a Y1 expected level if they are behind in Y2. If they are exceeding expectations they will presumably be told were along the line they exactly fit exceeding Y2 and emerging Y3 or whatever.

If is still up in the air and a lot of schools like I said are still using levels which were in effect a similar thing anyway and parents told were the child sits in terms of national expectations. It is useless for a parent to be told where a child sits in the class because number one the comparison is illusionary and number two we are discouraged from setting children by ability now - the differentiation going by expectation, questioning and knowledge of the child. Guess what the research says it doesn't work and just limits a child's potential. It does not matter where your child is in the class. I have had many children who are extremely bright in a nominal middle ability in the class because in a given year I had a number of children who were potentially gifted in the top group (and even if that is 2/3 children they are still the top group).

[mrz]

If schools have rejigged "levels" to fit the new curriculum then they aren't using the old NC levels but their own assessment method linked to the new curriculum ... Schools that continue to use the old level assessments are burying their heads in the sand waiting for someone to come up with an answer when the government have no intention of providing one.

A child entering Y1 under the old curriculum having already achieved 50/60% of the Y1 expectations would be expected to make a full levels progress (or more) so effectively 50/60% of Y2 expectations .. nothing's changed really.

[ChocolateWombat]

It sounds like nothing has changed. If schools still have targets to reach at the end of the next key stage, based on results of the previous one, they will still break that down I to what needs to be achieved each year, in order to get there. Call this sub-levels or whatever you like instead, but there will be targets for pupils and teachers.
Sounds exactly the same to me, whatever new names are or are not given. The only change could be that different areas are using different names for the targets or current attainment, creating more confusion.

[cantthinkofanewnameatall]

That won't be the case for years 3,4,5 now though will it because surely you can't translate old end of year 2 levels to whatever the new ones are?

[ChocolateWombat]

I guess that there is provision for making judgements about children and schools in Years 3,4,5 who did KS1 in the old system and KS2 under the new system. No doubt it has to be a bit of a fudge.
The gov will still need statistics so it can say if primary schools are doing well or not, and secondary schools will still need a starting point,to base expectations on.

I suspect that given a bit of time, an accepted system will emerge to replace the old one, with some way of breaking down progress between KS1 and KS2 into sub levels or chunks, or whatever phrase comes about......teachers will use it first and then parents will want to know too, and then it will become a common currency just like the old system of sub levels.

We are in such a targets based culture, that children will continue toe given targets related to the next phase of their Key Stage.....whether these are called 4B or something different doesn't matter too much. I just hope a widely accepted method of measurement comes in soon - without it, it is like being in a country without a common currency or exchange rate.

[mrz]

www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/297595/Primary_Accountability_and_Assessment_Consultation_Response.pdf

[PiqueABoo]

They began a consultation re. primary 'performance descriptors' a week ago and although they're not all present for all subjects at the end both key stages, they do look like much like levels:

• Below
  
• Working towards
  
• At national standard
  
• Above
  
• Mastery

[mrz]

www.gov.uk/government/consultations/performance-descriptors-key-stages-1-and-2

[mrz]

michaelt1979.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/newtests1.png

[cantthinkofanewnameatall]

Why is there no above or mastery standard for maths?

[cantthinkofanewnameatall]

I ask because surely once the standard is reached some schools will rub their hands and declare job done, with no incentive to go any further. Of course some teachers and schools don't work like that but some do and need the equivalent of level 6.

[mrz]

There are mastery standards for maths

[teacherwith2kids]

Not for KS2 in the consultation document, mrz - I presume because JKS2 maths is to be 'tested', not teacher assessed?

[teacherwith2kids]

(Apologies if I have overlooked anything obvious, mrz - but from a cursory reading, for Maths and reading there is only 'have met the required standard' at end KS2 in the consultation document. It will make progress very hard to assess e.g. if a pupil achieved mastery at end KS1 but is capped at 'at national standard' at end KS2)

[PiqueABoo]

I can't figure out end-KS2 either but I think they might be saying a more detailed TA is pointless if you have a shiny new SAT-replacement scaled score for a subject.

Not sure where that leaves Science though.

[FinDeSemaine]

I'm v interested to hear that so many people have also experienced their children being on mixed ability tables rather than the alternative this year. For my child, it's been a disaster, quite honestly. She keeps coming home and telling me what she's been doing and it is nearly always something she grasped quite adequately in Y1 or before and she's sort of angry about it (she's not normally an angry kind of person). She's now in Y3. Yes, she's a bit ahead and it doesn't really matter in the sense that she is not going to forget how to do these things and I am perfectly capable of giving her other interesting things to think about at home but she is very bored and it does seem like there is a lot less differentiation going on this year than there has been in the past three years. It seems like a step backwards.

[Toomanyhouseguests]

My DDs' school stopped having ability tables this year. They were low key in the past, but now completely gone. Both DDs are very able. I can't see that the mixing of abilities has helped at all, but then, I'm not sure that it has hurt anything either. I get complaints of boredom (the differentiation was never sufficient, now it's even less so), of resentment from classmates who are sitting next to them, and classmates wanting to "cheat." My counsel was to not get fussed and to let other kids copy the answers...not encourage, but don't let it upset you. After all, it's not my DD's responsibility to police her classmates. She just wants to get along and fit in. The same as all the other kids whatever their ability.
So, socially, it's been a little awkward, but I don't have any evidence that it is hurting them academically. That said, I'm not given much feedback at home that makes me think it is helping their less able peers academically either.

[FinDeSemaine]

We have also had the copying thing. I said to my DD, don't copy anyone else's work and please try to think about it yourself but if someone else copies yours, it really isn't your problem and it's up to them so don't worry about it.

Actually, I think it is hurting my DD academically. She had a whole hour on adding and subtracting ten from any given number in one maths lesson. I know that many of her class will have found this challenging and that's fine, I know they need this and I am happy they are getting the input, but DD has been able to do this reliably from about the end of Reception. She was very cross about it.

In the past, the differentiation has been excellent. It seems now to be nearly non-existent. I don't understand how this is going to be good for anybody.

[poppy70]

There are now mixed ability groupings because the research says ability groupings do not work. There is differentiation, by task or outcome whatever... but not set groups. Children are encouraged to stretch themselves as far as they can. Maths tends to be the exception to this esp. In Year 6 where some children are working on KS3 things and are not included in a lot of whole class teaching _ being too far ahead. I would dispute any child, who has a good teacher, saying they are bored. The teacher would be well aware of what they can do and the questions to ask. Very bright children can sometimes have a higher opinion of their intelligence than is reality. Although to a point this is understandable - they are young and big fish in their little pond. I have had four year olds role their eyes because they think they are too advanced for the 'antics,' of reception and these children were as yet nowhere near completing receptions expectations, bright but not gifted. I have also had genuinely gifted year 6 children rise to my challenge of humbly teaching other year 6's probability. My challenge being: if you can not explain it many different ways then you do not really understand it. Mixed ability groupings are a great thing but yes at times the bright kids just want to be together and also there are moments where you need more explanation time with the less able. Basically its about trusting the teacher to know why they are doing. But the government doesn't exactly inspire that trust.

[Mumoftwoyoungkids]

Oh god - I hate this!

Dd is half a term into reception and we love the school and she seems pretty happy there but we have this report of her current ability levels and we have no sodding clue what it means.

The parents consultation was pretty positive but "oh yes - she's doing fine" isn't very helpful. What does that mean - fine for getting into Oxbridge or fine for not currently needing specialist intervention? Or somewhere in between?

I want to know two things:-

Firstly on a national scale, in the format of the data we've been given - where are the 10, 25, 50, 75 & 90th centile kids lying?

Secondly - are there other children of similar ability in every subject in the class. Or is she alone - either ahead or as a straggler? If she's alone, how are her needs being met.

My best guess, from endless googling is that she is average - above average. In which case, if I could just be told that, then I would be quite content and let the school get on with their job while I get on with mine.

[poppy70]

What does it say? 30 -50 months secure with a few 40 - 60 months entering is on average where a child on entry to reception should be in the 7 focus areas. Anything above that is just that and below just that. Trust me entry level baselines in reception mean nothing about the child's potential... you will need to wait until midyear teacher meeting to find out what they expect. Fine just means that: fine... settling in well. No child is getting into Oxbridge at four, and no teacher knows. They have inklings about students... that is all. Some children come to reception behind but because they are so bright you bet the teacher can see them at the top of the class by year 6. My advice is to relax. No teacher will tell U how a child is doing in comparison to the class. They will tell u if your child is getting provision... if you ask. They will probably also include the word bright child to let you know they probably consider them just that,

[mrz]

I understood that KS2 would have a Y/N or above type teacher assessment recorded but that the progress will be also be measured in terms of the score (anything above 100 seen as above?)

[mrz]

The new EYFS on entry assessment won't be based on months and the profile will no longer be required Poppy

[poppy70]

It is this year which is what was asked.

[lemonpuffbiscuit]

Surely being told your child is working at the national expected level, working towards the national expected level or working beyond the national expected level is enough to gage where your child is academically. It doesn't however mean the child is working to their full potential