Ability levels

[wishiwasonthebeach]

Do teachers tell parents which ability level table children are working on?

My son is in year 1 and I know that each table has an animal name, I imagine that they must be working in ability sets but I have no idea what sort if level he is on.

Parents evening was very general, the teacher mostly told me what they have been working on and some targets for literacy. When I tried to find out more about my son in particular she was quite dismissive. I don't know if I should ask her about the tables arrangement or if that's not appropriate.

[mrz]

to schools from HMCI - July 2014.pdf

[mrz]

Expressing an opinion Bright schools were well aware there would be no levels and had plenty of time to come up with alternatives. Instead of clinging to the familiar even though it no longer fits.

[AsBrightAsAJewel]

Why so patronising, mrz? I am a skilled and experienced professional too.
Yes, I know there is a new curriculum. Yes, I am using the new criteria for my AfL. But no, we haven't found a replacement for the sub-levels tracking system yet. But as our software provider hasn't fully launched it yet we would be foolish to spend numerous teacher hours inventing something to use until November when it is. That does not mean we are not using other assessment to monitor progress and plan interventions. It does not mean we are ignoring hoping it will go away or that someone will tell us what to do; what we are doing is working with all local schools to ensure we all introduce the same system to allow smooth transition and a uniform approach across the local schools.

[mrz]

You have a new curriculum to assess Bright so you can't ignore it hoping it will go away or someone will tell you what to do. Half a term in you need a solution.

[mrz]

Yes! Twenty Five years since the last change to the statutory curriculum

[lougle]

knittedjimmychoos that would be the descriptive part of the report. My point is that I want to know whether DD's attainment is par for the course, or if I should be concerned.

[pearpotter]

Pear potter its 25 years since the last change

No, every education minister tinkers. There have been dozens of sea changes in education in the last 25 years!

[FinDeSemaine]

Lougle, your tick list would be ideal for me. That is exactly what I want to know, not least because if what seemed appropriate wasn't in place I would want to ask about it.

In our school, things seem to have changed significantly since last year - DD had a wonderfully happy KS1 with loads of differentiation and curriculum enrichment in all directions and all subjects for all children in the class (I helped and help out a lot in class so was able to see it in action and have also seen this year's approach) but it seems very different this year (Y3). I don't know if it's because teachers are having a hard time adjusting to the new curriculum or if KS2 is just different (can't see why it would be) or what but they all seem to be being taught to a very narrow spectrum, despite supposedly being able to choose their level of challenge. It seems like there is a much narrower spread of what they are allowed to attempt and I can't help feeling that this is a backwards step.

When I went to parents evening, DD's teacher said 'oh, she's doing really well, she has a great attitude to learning and she'll be at rough expectations for the end of junior school by the end of the year'. But how will she do this if she is getting no input in terms of learning new stuff at school and not being allowed to attempt things that actually will challenge her? If she can actually do this with no teacher input, then what on earth is the point of school? Yes, I know, massively privileged problem, and I am of course delighted that she is doing well. I actually don't really care what external level DD is at, given that she's doing perfectly fine, as long as she finds it enjoyable/interesting which is not currently the case. But since they have identified this as the level they think she should be reaching, I will be v interested to see how they actually support her to do so. I am guessing, on the evidence so far, that it will be down to me to provide her with an appropriate level of stuff to think about. We don't actually do any formal schoolwork at home currently, bar the fact that she reads books, and I have no plans to change that, though obviously I will answer any questions she asks.

I just find it all a bit odd. The approach seems to have changed a lot and suddenly and not for the better.

[AsBrightAsAJewel]

Oh! I don't know many schools, and certainly none in my area, that are hanging on to the old. What they are doing is not diving into any old assessment until it has been reflected on carefully, all possible options evaluated and the government and LA advice taken on board.

[KnittedJimmyChoos]

So perhaps it would be more helpful to say she was 'receiving support through normal differentiation'.

If I was told that I wouldn't have the foggiest, why not, your child is not great at maths and needs help!

Here is x y and z where she is weak if you want to help her.

[mrz]

A comfort blanket to schools and teachers who hang onto the old rather than face change. Like all the schools continuing with the Literacy and Numeracy Framework and clinging to levels because they are familiar.

[Thatssofunny]

I don't generally have any issue telling parents about how their children are doing, which includes what they are good at and what they need to improve in. It's not difficult...and it doesn't involve telling them who they are of similar ability with.

Just to add, that the children also work out of 'years' in ability groups for big write, maths and spellings, so they get the opportunity to work with children of similar abilities, but from different years.
I visited a school, which worked like that for assessments (so they did a whole-school writing assessments and then put all the children on a 3a in one room, everyone with a 2b in another). I would suspect you'd only see it as an "opportunity" that they work with children from other year groups but same attainment, if your child is not the one, who has to go and work with the Year 1s despite being in UKS2. There were a whole lot of other things about that school, which just felt "wrong", despite it having been judged as "outstanding". (My own school was in the same category at that time, so it wasn't the label that put me off.) I observed one of the most poorly paced and least successfully differentiated English lessons of my life. After having spent a day there, I would never apply to work in that place.
Especially for my weaker ones, mixed ability grouping has been much more beneficial. If children are constantly contained in their own "ability group", how are they ever supposed to realise that there might be more out there and push themselves?

[AsBrightAsAJewel]

Can you explain your comment more fully, mrz, please? Comfort blanket for whom?

[mrz]

Comfort blanket assessment

[Lucyccfc]

Whilst levels will no longer exist, I am sure there will have to be something to replace it. I'm confident our school will have a good system in place. The Head has already said that they are going to do their very best to be able to compare the new system, with the old levels, so it's an easy transition for parents.

Who knows what it will look like though!

[lougle]

I think you're absolutely spot on that positions in class don't give the bigger picture. However, there is a middle ground.

I got a report saying that DD2 was working in line with national expectations. But, knowing that her maths is less secure than her sister who is 2 school years lower than her, I questioned it. The reality is that she was struggling within the class so had the support of a TA on her table. So perhaps it would be more helpful to say she was 'receiving support through normal differentiation'.

I think I'd be happy if the tick list said:

Above expectations -intervention in place (I.e additional to normal differentiation)
Above expectation but within normal range
Meeting expectation
Below expectation but within normal range
Below expectation -intervention in place (eg. SEN Support)

That is specific enough to tell the parent where their child is.

Also, please, no to the 'positive speak' on reports. ' X has experienced......' is code for 'was in the room but doesn't have a clue about it if you ask her.'

If I got a report that matched the child I know and also matched the interactions with the teacher through the year, I'd be happy. What I can't stand is a teacher telling me my child is struggling with something and then giving a report saying she's fine.

[spanieleyes]

jacobibatoli-but that approach can't exist any longer, there are no levels to give out!

[jacobibatoli]

Lucy
that sounds great, I would be very happy with that approach

[AsBrightAsAJewel]

Exactly, Mrz!

[mrz]

There aren't any new National Curriculum levels or sub levels Bright and there aren't going to be any.

[AsBrightAsAJewel]

I'd be interested to see what they do now NC levels and sublevels don't exist Lucy. Historically that is what we did, although sub-levels don't have specific criteria. But as we are now in the new era we can't use old assessment criteria (NC levels and sublevels) to assess the new curriculum.

[Lucyccfc]

Just to add, that the children also work out of 'years' in ability groups for big write, maths and spellings, so they get the opportunity to work with children of similar abilities, but from different years.

It's not a prep nor a school in an affluent area either, but I feel they do thermoset for all the children and keep parents very well informed.

[Lucyccfc]

We are very lucky with DS's school, as the teachers do give out levels and sub levels each year, with a lot of narrative to back it up. They are completely open. They don't tell us which table or ability group the children sit in, as the children know this anyway.

I know how well my DS is doing based on national standards. Our school have stuck to using the now defunct levels for this year, but will work towards a new system for next year.

Our Head Teacher believes in total transparency with parents. Not sure why some schools would want to hide anything or not give out levels. Our Head had a simple answer to this question though 'she just raised her eyebrows'. What have schools for to hide, if parents don't know how,their children are performing against national standards. We also receive a report on what they need to do to get them to the next sub-level, so we can choose to support at home (if we want to).

[AsBrightAsAJewel]

My tables are named after Greek gods. They are mixed groups but I bet that causes some discussion at the school gate! A governor's son, purely by chance, is on Zeus, as is child of chair of PTA. CoG's DC is on Athena ... And as for the mum whose child is in Ares...!

[spanieleyes]

I understand at least one of the schools that took the money to develop "best practice" has now withdrawn from the pilot and is selling the assessment system they developed!!