Ability levels

[wishiwasonthebeach]

Do teachers tell parents which ability level table children are working on?

My son is in year 1 and I know that each table has an animal name, I imagine that they must be working in ability sets but I have no idea what sort if level he is on.

Parents evening was very general, the teacher mostly told me what they have been working on and some targets for literacy. When I tried to find out more about my son in particular she was quite dismissive. I don't know if I should ask her about the tables arrangement or if that's not appropriate.

[CatKisser]

*publicly, dammit!

[pearpotter]

We were told at the end of Y1. Apparently now though it's all going to be about where they are in relation to the rest of their class, which is neither here nor there to me.

I want to know what they have to do to get to the next level or in other words keep being challenged so they don't get bored- apparently there will be still some element of this, but I don't think it helps anyone of any ability to be told they are in the top middle or bottom.

[pearpotter]

I liked the NC levels and sub-levels system as you could clearly see your child making progress - or not - and got clear guidance as to how they were doing vs the national average and what were the next steps in their progress.

If the new reports are anything to go by received a couple weeks ago they are really wishy washy in comparison, though may be a lot easier for teahers to fill in. Ticking boxes as to whether they are exceeding expectations, meeting expectations or below expectations- a massive MEH. Of course DD1 is exceeding expectations, she always was! How on earth can I tell whether she is being allowed to cruise or meeting her potential? The old system was much clearer. I only hope the next reports are much more detailed.

[queenceleste]

I do feel for teachers who are damned if they do and damned if they don't in so many respects. Parents can be so unrealistic in their expectations for what school can do; equally we are all extremely vulnerable and irrational around our children's performance at school.

Also giving parents too much information may be perhaps like handing them a loaded gun to then point back at you as a teacher, in a manner of speaking.

I just know that my ds really struggled at primary school and the teachers after year 2 - were very shrugging about it (It was an indifferent school academically and very poorly led). I felt unsupported as he drifted up the school: not struggling enough to warrant extra support and not well enough to gain praise or the boosting of the higher achievers. I really felt he was in the forgotten middle of the class: the drifters who are less pressing for teachers to address as they are not 'gifted' and needing to be pushed or struggling and needing to be resourced to the national expectations. A Head teacher said to me recently that one sign of an excellent school is how they approach kids in the middle academically, and the kids who behave well and are very quiet. All the praise and hooha of the naughty child's extravagant rewards for good behaviour after bad behaviour leaves the quiet well behaved child unrewarded very often and in receipt of a strange message too.

I cannot tell you how hard I found it to have a child who was "mediocre" educationally in his teachers' eyes. Thankfully he had two teachers in Reception and Year 1 (Very experienced women with grown up kids) who saw what was special in him and gave him the attention he needed to thrive. From year 2 - 5 he had three very 'can't be arsed with him' style teachers which broke my heart, particularly the teacher who appeared to dislike boys. He really struggled with his literacy and those kids appear to be hard work for teachers under so much pressure with targets etc themselves.

Having a child (dd) who I made sure was armed for school is a massive relief. I was lucky in that she suits our system and thrives at school. She fits in. But so many of the mums with boys who are struggling like my ds did feel very baffled about what to do and need more support I think. These are boys who are 5 and 6 and can't sit still. Small classrooms and vast range of ability makes teaching a real organisational miracle to be pulled off all the time. You need good well supported teachers in a good well organised and well-led school to pull it off. Not all schools provide that.

[KnittedJimmyBoos]

I was very happy with the info I was given by our teacher at our last parents evening and I felt that the teacher viewed me as a partner which I am in my childs education.

I was given a great gage of where she was in the class for various subjects, and in areas where she was excelling it was great to hear she was not the best.

The teacher told me weak areas and I noted these down so we can help support her.

I came away with a good idea where she was nationally and also within her class. As well as the social side etc.

If all teachers can give me such a great run down as we move through the school I will be very happy.

[KnittedJimmyBoos]

queen

Its not just boys who cant sit still, my DD cant sit still.

I was also not able to arm her for school as she simply was not ready to learn at nursery age. Things clicked for her much later.

I just think teachers need to be as open and honest as they can, if a parent is asking un realistic things, get them into the school for a proper meeting with the head! Pass it up the chain! sort it out then you wont get the un realistic expectations. Thats what happens in business and shops, and other aspects of life.

If a parent doesn't understand something whats wrong with helping them understand?

Its not the teachers job to project how they feel about certain parents onto all of us, and judge us and choose to withhold info.

[queenceleste]

I agree Knitted.

Now I keep talking to dc's teachers and if I'm worried about something I ask for advice.

But I am absolutely always positive, polite, supportive and acknowledge that they are massively busy etc. Also my sister taught me that we never ever ever have the whole story as parents. The teacher has a different perspective and is dealing with, in some ways, a slightly different child.

It is very interesting in secondary how well this approach has paid off for ds.

[vkyyu]

Ime as a parent of two dcs and two different primary schools. I found ability sets are just total distractions rather than helps to anyone concerned. It also creates an unpleasant competitive atmosphere amongst pupils and parents.

[KnittedJimmyBoos]

Vkyyu - It also creates an unpleasant competitive atmosphere amongst pupils and parents*

I don't believe we should bow to the lowest common denominator.

Some parents may do this, some parents don't care, some just want to know where their child is, to support.
There are lots of things distracting parents these days, from the actual knowledge of what their dc is up too in every way.

[KnittedJimmyBoos]

but what about the feeling of dread for the ones who would once again be bottom?

the reality is someone will always be the bottom in something,. I was.

being in the bottom never troubled me, it was not having the ladder clearly provided to clear up that was my issue.

[CatKisser]

Well that's ok for you - but it doesn't sit right with me to rank my 27 children, ranging from P Scales (with severe SEN) to Level 6, because everyone, including the very lowest ability children, know they'd have no chance whatsoever of climbing off that bottom spot.

[mrz]

I would argue that you came away believing you had a good idea where your child is nationally knitted whereas in reality no one not even the government know where individual children are compared to their peers across the country.

[Hakluyt]

Knowing where your child is in relation to their class mates can be very gratifying. I have talked before about my finely honed ability to read very small print upside down but is very unhelpful if you don't also know the attainment level of the class. Knowing where your child is in relation to national standards might be helpful. Knowing where your child is in relation to their last assessment is very important.

[CatKisser]

Knowing where your child is in relation to their last assessment is very important.
That's the big one for me because it's indicative of progress. Also, obviously, knowing where they are in relation to national standards. But I completely fail to see any benefits of telling parents where their children rank within the class. The only people who seem to think this is a good idea are those who are pretty sure their kids would be near the top.

[CatKisser]

I have talked before about my finely honed ability to read very small print upside down
And this is truly a vital teacher skill, Hakluyt!

[Hakluyt]

More useful as a parent! And it's amazing how few teachers think parents have it.

[CatKisser]

Don't worry, I'm sure they see your roving little beadies! They must think you're suitably naice and won't misuse the information gleaned.

[Hakluyt]

Nope. I learned from experts. Including the then Permanent Secretary to the Secretary of State for Education...........

[mrz]

Interesting in a paper free environment

[Hakluyt]

Another of the niche skills being made obsolete by inexorable momentum of technology..........

[lougle]

I think the idea that parents always want to know the position to stealth boast is interesting.

I spent 18 months telling a school that DD2 was struggling in maths. Being told she was 'ok'. A teacher raising concerns informally, but a report that gave her ability as national average. A SENCO that described her as 'about average' to an Ed Psych. She's year 3 and can't add 6&7 in her head. Can't recognise monetary value past 10p.

I've moved her to a new school and have received her targets. She is in year 3 and the targets they've sent home are (I think) year 1 targets.

I don't want fluff and flannel. I want someone to admit that she us behind the curve and to tell me what they are going to do about it, along with what would be most helpful for me to do. I am doing my best at home (and the small progress in numeracy is due to the work I did when I HE her for a term last year), but her best interests would be served by a coordinated effort.

[Recovering]

As a teacher I'm still not sure education can be quantified like this. I don't really want the end of a year in school just to be sumized as to weather she has changed from a7z to a 7w or whatever.

I was secondary but even then I think parents put too much value on the reports in the lower years. A student is not a number - how can the decision whether to grade at A or B or effort as 4 or 5 be the sole thing to take away from a years work? It is different at GCse/ A level but I really don't think it should be like this in primary.

[mrz]

I don't think it has anything to do with boasting (stealth or otherwise) but more from a mistaken belief in the actual usefulness of comparison.
Far more useful/important is the need for teachers to communicate what your child needs to do to get from the point they are currently to the point they need to be (in order to achieve either end of KS expectations or above) and how you as a parent can help them and more importantly how the school is going to support your child.

[CatKisser]

I don't want fluff and flannel. I want someone to admit that she us behind the curve and to tell me what they are going to do about it, along with what would be most helpful for me to do. I am doing my best at home (and the small progress in numeracy is due to the work I did when I HE her for a term last year), but her best interests would be served by a coordinated effort.
I totally agree with what you're saying there. But I don't think that's necessarily to do with her position in class; I think it's to do with her ability in relation to national expectations. However, how infuriating to be told "she's ok" "She's about average" when she clearly wasn't.

[Hakluyt]

"I don't think it has anything to do with boasting (stealth or otherwise) but more from a mistaken belief in the actual usefulness of comparison."

Interesting. I freely admit that I do like to know- but for my own personal gratification, and for a little late night smuggery with their father.

However at ds's last parents' evening, teachers were telling us,not his class position exactly, but what sort of peer group he had in each class. He is one of a very small group of higher ability children at his school, and they are trying to keep as many of them together as they can. Difficult now they have chosen options- but they are juggling them as best they can.