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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

Called in to school again for reception child and thinking of removing her

29 replies

Itsjustmeagain · 06/10/2014 12:04

My dd is 4 (she has an August birthday so is one of the youngest), she has had terrible trouble using the toilet at school to the point where I send her a bag of clothes but she goes through all of them PLUS all of the class spare clothes. I then get called in - it happened today at 11:15. She had 4 spare outfits when she went.

I have taken her to the doctor who says that because she is pretty good in the house (and only has the occasional accident) it must be a problem with being at school so there is no physical reason for it.

I have tried talking to her teachers but it pretty much boils down to they will take her to the toilet every 30 minutes which clearly isnt helping - they have been great but what else can they do? I know my dd would be mortified to wear a pull up or something and I dont think the school accept this anyway.

She is getting sore because of it and starting to get upset as the other children are noticing

I am thinking of withdrawing her from school and I have posted on the home ed board for some advice but I just wanted some opinions from those who are not quite as strongly on the side of home ed.

For a bit of background we have 3 older children at the school and they seem happy enough, my second has learning difficulties but all have been toilet trained by school.

Do you think withdrawing her because of this is crazy?

OP posts:

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TeenAndTween · 06/10/2014 12:12

Why not withdraw her for now and ask that her place be kept until Easter (as you are entitled to)?

By then she will be 6 months older, and that might be all she needs to cope with the emotional demands of school?

Wednesbury · 06/10/2014 12:19

I have two children in school and the youngest had lots of trouble toilet training. I had expected lots of accidents in reception but actually she has done very well.

I don't think you are crazy for wanting to withdraw her because of this. I imagine it is very stressful for her. It sounds like you need some help though, I would want some advice from a psychologist to see if the situation could be turned around because it certainly sounds like a problem with school and I'd want to know the best way of resolving that so that she could stay at school and not be afraid of returning if I did take her out for a while. As a child I was terrified of the school toilets (probably quite common) but I would go to them. My sister went through a phase of wetting herself because of that fear (we both hated the high cisterned toilets, I used to have nightmares about them). What are the toilets like? Could it be something as simple as this? (my DD hates any remotely smelly toilets, fortunately for reception they have lovely new loos with pretty coloured doors and splashbacks etc.) I'm not sure what you would do if it was that.

Original poster

Itsjustmeagain · 06/10/2014 12:23

Teen - am I really allowed to do that?? that would be perfect!
Wed - I don't think she is afraid of the toilers as when she is reminded to go she will go quite happily but she just doesn't remember to go on her own.

OP posts:

jammytoast · 06/10/2014 12:24

I'm not sure why all of your children were toilet trained by the school. Thats unheard of where I live. DD1s preschool didn't accept children unless they were out of nappies, which where I live is the equivalent of englands reception.

because she is pretty good in the house (and only has the occasional accident)

Are you sure she is as good as you think she is at home? I found potty training DD1 really difficult and I am dreading DD2 going through it, but DD1 was dry during the day by 2.5 and dry at night by 3.

If I was you I would pull her out until Easter and in the meantime go back to the GP and really tackle this. Going through 4 changes of clothes in two hours is more than her having an accident.

Original poster

Itsjustmeagain · 06/10/2014 12:25

no i mean the were all potty trained before the started school - not by the school

OP posts:

hazeyjane · 06/10/2014 12:26

I think the op meant that they have been trained by the time they were at school, not that school did the training.

But I have to point out that preschools and schools will and have to take take children that are in nappies.

divingoffthebalcony · 06/10/2014 12:27

jammytoast, I don't think the OP said her other children were toilet trained by the school, but toilet trained by the time they went to school

OP, I would be very tempted to withdraw until Easter as suggested. She's incredibly young, and having all these accidents must be so distressing for her.

jammytoast · 06/10/2014 12:30

Ok I see, but the way its written still sounds like the school did the training, but I see what you mean now.

Is she just forgetting because she is distracted by all the activities?

But then, would any child need the loo 4 times in 2 hours?

Original poster

Itsjustmeagain · 06/10/2014 12:33

jammy - we have been told that she gets upset and wets herself, or if she doesn't know what to do (where to hang her painting apron for example) she wets herself. So she doesn't really need the toilet as such its more of a small accident in response to stress.

OP posts:

Doodledot · 06/10/2014 12:39

Is there anyway you can spend a few days in school with her helping her with all the things that cause her stress? It's likely that the TA has too many things to do to give 1 on 1. Failing that maybe defer for 6 months when she is more ready ?

TeenAndTween · 06/10/2014 12:41

OP - I think you should be able to.

If I understand correctly places for summer born children can be deferred until Easter. Any later than that and you lose the place. I have no idea or experience whether you can withdraw and defer until Easter given she has already started, but common sense (which I know may well not apply!) seems to dictate to me it should be possible.

Iamcuriousyellow · 06/10/2014 12:43

I wholeheartedly agree with taking her out of school until Easter. If she is weeing herself in anxiety about not knowing what to do I'd be thinking she's just not ready yet.

jammytoast · 06/10/2014 12:44

Ok you didn't say that in your first post. But now I am more confused. If the teachers know that its due to stress then why aren't they addressing that? Its only the second month of term, I am sure she is not alone in finding it hard to settle in, its just that in her this is presenting itself in a very physical way.

In your OP you wrote

I have tried talking to her teachers but it pretty much boils down to they will take her to the toilet every 30 minutes which clearly isnt helping - they have been great but what else can they do?

So the teachers think taking her to the loo is going to stop her getting stressed? Thats not correct. They need to look past the physical symptom and deal with the route cause. And every day that they aren't doing that is making it worse for your poor girl, and for you.

zandy · 06/10/2014 12:45

If she can't cope with half hour prompts, move to ten or fifteen minute prompts. Set up an oven timer to beep at ten minutes. Reset it after she has 'tried'.

jammytoast · 06/10/2014 12:46

*root. Auto correct.

marthabear · 06/10/2014 12:54

Poor little love. She must be finding school so stressful. Must be so difficult for you OP. Seems like she really needs your full help with this and as others have suggested that may mean removing her for a while. You are right to seek advice from the home ed sites as they will be well versed on your rights. Could you speak to the head teacher for advice and see if you could spend some time in school with her to help her to get used to what to do and all the routines? Have a gentle chat with her at an appropriate, relaxed time to see what she would like to happen? Whatever happens, don't let anyone dismiss her worries as something insignificant.

Iggly · 06/10/2014 12:56

Is she drinking loads? Because that's a lot of wee IMO!

kla73 · 06/10/2014 12:59

She manages the problem better at home than at school but that does not necessarily rule out a physical reason, maybe exacerbated more at school than at home. How often does she need to go to the toilet at home. If it is frequent and she is passing small amounts of urine each time she may have an 'irritable bladder' and would benefit from being referred to a paediatrician to investigate and treat this.
I suggest you keep a diary at the weekend of how often she needs to go and if this is more than seven times in the day I would return to the GP. I assume they will have dipped her wee last time but if they haven't they should do this to check for infection.

ReallyTired · 06/10/2014 13:29

What was her bladder control like at nursery? Is she scared of the school toilets?

Do think its possible that been taken to the toilet every 30 minutes means that your little girl is failing to learn what a full bladder feels like and what it feels like when your bladder is getting full. I feel you may well be right that the teachers should stop prompting her to go.

I think its understandable that you want to take her out of school so you can sort out her toileting.

Hexu2 · 06/10/2014 13:42

Have the actually tested a urine sample ? - as my DD was able to hid the problem at home - though she was quite a bit older - but once she had an accident at school with no warning it was obviously a possibility and turned out to be an infection.

Did she attend a nursury? If so how was she there?

Otherwise I would take your DD out of school till after Christmas or Easter and get her back to normal then try again with school.

webminx · 06/10/2014 13:52

Hi, your poor DD; can't be much fun for her (or you!). Have you discussed a urology referral with your GP? IME a GP is not best placed to decide on whether the cause is physical or otherwise - it could, for example be an overactive bladder, which is exacerbated by stress or unfamiliar routines etc. and can be successfully retrained or treated with medication and training. There are many causes of childhood incontinence and may be worth looking into it. Would also second investigating a urine sample and a kidney scan to rule out infection/blockage/dysfunctional voiding.

I have no advice about deferring places etc. but just wanted to say that many children have bladder control issues up to the age of 7 - it's very common even though I know it probably doesn't feel that way. I can recommend this website - great helpline and good advice:
www.eric.org.uk
Good luck

Amateurseamstress · 06/10/2014 15:54

Look at Eric, but also I would give your school nurses a ring. School reception will be able to give you the number. I found ours much more help on a practical level than GPs.

DD has had various help like being allowed to use a different loo at school.

Does she go to the loo by herself at home or are you reminding her often? Give her a decent level of drinks one day at home and count how many times she goes to the loo that day. If it's more than every couple of hours that could indicate a problem such as overactive bladder.

RiversideMum · 07/10/2014 05:54

I'd agree that at this age it's very unusual for a child to need the loo 4+ times in a 2 1/2 hour period. I'd go for a referral too.

RunAwayHome · 07/10/2014 09:10

I can understand that pull-ups might not be a great idea if she'd be mortified by them, but I don't think the school can say they're not allowed, if you decided to try them, especially if it's considered a medical condition/need because of anxiety/stress. Or perhaps there would be some other sort of continence pad that would be unobtrusive, that would be enough to protect her clothes from what must be otherwise relatively minor accidents in terms of quantity, if they're happening that often. Then she wouldn't need to change clothes quite as much, which would be less noticeable to the other children and less hassle for her and TAs and you, which might then bring her stress levels down. She might also be worrying about wetting herself, which then makes it more likely to happen, so something to protect her clothes and make it less of an issue might reduce the worry.

Doodledot · 07/10/2014 10:04

I agree with runaway - pull ups may help ease the stress

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