Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

Please or to access all these features

Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

Handled this really badly

26 replies

Sweetasstevia · 01/10/2014 17:29

Think I've put d's1 (5yrs) off his piano lessons :( Just had a pathetic pmt fueled row with him about him not wanting to practice. I ranted on about what a waste of money it was and called him a 'quitter' when he (unsurprisingly) then said he didn't want to do piano any more Blush. Cue both my children getting very upset and howling at my shouty voice :( I've apologised and hugged both boys. In the end Ds1 played around a bit on the keyboard which is something I suppose but he's still hurt I can tell and he's mumbling to himself that he can't do anything and that he's stupid :( (he's actually a smart boy but not so great at putting in effort for things that don't come easily - like the keyboard). What to do? Next lesson is tomorrow. :(

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
longtallsally2 · 01/10/2014 17:32

Poor you. Make sure you let him choose what they have for supper this evening/have another cuddle and grovel a bit more.

Tell him that he might be able to give up the piano in after Christmas/Easter/he birthday if he really hates it, but that in the meantime, you will start a sticker chart for going to lessons and for practicing and that there will be a nice surprise at the end of getting lots of stickers . . .

Sweetasstevia · 01/10/2014 17:51

That's genius thank you - just put this proposal to him and he nodded solemnly :)

OP posts:
Enb76 · 01/10/2014 17:55

Can you play? My daughter is quite happy to practice because it's a bit of unfettered mummy time. So she's doing the practicing and I'm making it into duets. We have lots of fun. I think at this age if it's not fun or enjoyable they really don't see the point and it just becomes a chore.

Sweetasstevia · 01/10/2014 18:15

I can play a bit - was trying to show him hand positions today but he was really struggling to get his fingers into position - may have to get him a mini keyboard with smaller keys does such a thing exist?

OP posts:
newbieman1978 · 01/10/2014 18:29

I know people start children with things at an early age but I think 5 is very young especialy if he isn't really into it. I guess only you know if it's you pushing for the piano or whether your son actually likes it but is just having a bad day.

Our son started piano at 10yrs and whilst he likes the achievement of playing he doesn't care too much for the practice. Now at 13 it is much easier to explain the virtues of practice and sometimes force the issue.

If it's a battle already maybe it's time to cool the lessons for a while and see if your son comes to it by himself.

Sweetasstevia · 01/10/2014 18:37

I might have been a bit hasty signing him up in retrospect - he had a spell over the summer where he was really into it and started picking out the notes to 'Cars' by Gary Numan (he's got a thing about 80's music!). Then they were offering lessons at school so I thougth why not? But now his interest has dwindled a bit. I think as Sally suggested we'll give it to Chrstmas then review.

OP posts:
newbieman1978 · 01/10/2014 18:43

The key is for music and instruments to be available, young children may take and interest and if they do that's great. I think 7-10 is a better sort of age to start formalising things...that's just my opinion though!

noramum · 01/10/2014 19:05

DD was a very young 5 year old who insisted on playing the violin. We gave it a try and like you, had terrible trouble with practice.

After two terms and lots of threats to pull her out we decided together with her teacher that it was important to practice but on a slower level. She may not made the fast progress an older child would have done but she continued.

My DD is now 7, managed to bite her way through it and was extremely proud to receive the next size up violin last weekend. Being able to play in front of her classmates also helped a lot. I think they need to see an advantage of playing.

I think 5 is young and they can easily loose the interest. I think carry on for the term and then see how it goes. Take each term he does on its own and he that he does some steady practice, a friend whose both children play piano says none of them play more than 5 minutes a time.

Hooliesmoolies · 01/10/2014 20:11

I SO understand what you are the saying!!! I have had the same type of conversations with DD (same age). I wish I had a magic solution, but I keep reminding myself that it should be fun for them, and that some days they aren't in the mood. I also have to tell myself not to expect perfection. But I haven't found the solution. We use the sticker charts too. Does help. But the thing that helps most is me being patient and supportive. I just find it hard sometimes Blush.

ZanyMobster · 02/10/2014 13:05

5 is really young, I play various instruments and didn't start until I was 7, most private teachers will say at least 6 and even then can be a bit hit or miss due to their age. DS1 was more than ready at 6 but DS2 definitely wasn't. It's a big commitment due to practising and this is hard for very little ones.

I have done exactly the same as you and it makes you feel awful but I agree with others, set a time limit (I used to say I have paid up till whenever) then he can make a decision.

Littlefish · 02/10/2014 20:35

I would say that 5 is too young for piano lessons unless it is something he is really passionate about. I would let him stop and then re-start in a year or so. In the meantime, leave the keyboard out and let him play for pleasure.

My dd started piano at the beginning of year 3 and passed both grades one and 2 with distinction within less than 2 years. I don't think there is anyway she would have done that if we'd started her earlier. She was ready to learn, and unbelievably keen!

Fiddlerontheroof · 02/10/2014 20:42

5 isn't too young, as long as you've got a good teacher with a flair for teaching very young children, otherwise I imagine the drop out rate will be fairly high if they are too academic about it. I would expect very minimal practise at this age too, so I don't think you should badger him about practising more "show me what you did in your piano lesson" would be a far better way to approach it!

I'm an early years music specialist and if you try and get too forceful about practise and instrument playing...they'll quickly lose interest. Always make it fun, x

Muskey · 02/10/2014 20:43

I so wished I had read this thread five years ago when dd asked for piano lessons. She pretty much got fed up after a year and would not practice. Queue rows about the money wasting and me threatening to stop the lessons. Dd always pleaded with me to keep the lessons which stupidly I did. Four years later she still wouldn't practice and finally I gave up listening to her and ended the lessons. I would spare yourself the grief if its not his thing don't push it

halamadrid · 04/10/2014 13:39

Most piano teachers, who are honest and not after the money, wouldn't start a child until they are 7.

noramum · 04/10/2014 13:56

Halamadrid, DD gets her lesson via a Youth music trust, the teachers are trained to deal with 5 year old and the lessons are age appropriate. I doubt there would be such a high uptake otherwise.

DD's Junior school offers more difficult instruments from Year 3 onwards, exactly for the reason that a younger child is not able to cope with a clarinet or similar unless really gifted,

I think parents need to be realistic when a young child wants to play, there will be practice rows and less immediate progress. But as long as teacher and parent are ok with this there is no reason why a child should not start an instrument earlier.

It wasn't about reaching a grade or a merit or distinguish exam result, it was, for us, about learning to like music and the discipline an instrument can teach a child.

ChippingInLatteLover · 04/10/2014 14:05
Brew

He's only little. Try to make practice fun.

Speak with his teacher to see how much they would like him to be doing. I would imagine only something like 10 minutes 2/3 x pw. Also, ask them to tell him when they do see a difference between lessons and tell him how well he has done due to practicing. They need to see it's worth it.

Does he enjoy the actual lessons?

RaisinBoys · 06/10/2014 11:21

He's 5!!!

SpaceStation · 06/10/2014 11:29

Oh god, I started an instrument at 7, hated it and gave up.

I didn't try another (apart from school recorder group) until 11. I loved it, loved my teacher, still play that instrument today and have been in loads of bands and orchestras and met so many friends, it's been a huge part of my life.

I don't understand why people make children endure learning an instrument if they don't like it - and 5 is so young, any kind of regular practice is going to be quite a big pressure. I'd talk to him about if he really wants to stop, or why he's not keen, and listen to him. There's always time to try something else one day.

singinggirl · 06/10/2014 12:22

As a piano teacher, my blanket rule is to not start before year 2. Obviously there are children who are ready younger, but since you can't know each individual child before they start lessons, it is impossible to tell who those will be. Practice is hard at any age, but especially when they are little and don't understand why it needs to be done.

The main reason for my blanket rule is that the drop out rate pre year 2 is so high, simply because the children are so young. This can lead to children believing they are unmusical, whereas they were probably just not developmentally/ physically ready. Good teaching will help, but if a child has not touched a piano between lessons, then they will have to go back over the same ground in subsequent lessons rather than moving forward. Obviously over a number of weeks lack of progress becomes demoralising, and frustrating for parents paying for lessons.

Specific advice for the OP, I wouldn't get a smaller keyboard; playing on different size keys in lessons and at home will add confusion, and can over a long period of time lead to poor keyboard geography. If your DS can't physically play some parts of his music, the teacher should be showing him how to move his hands to facilitate his playing - I had one student who had lost a finger, but she still learnt to play. If he really doesn't want to practice, try asking him to play one of his favourite tunes from what he has already learned instead - better to play than not. Does the teacher give out practice charts? My littlies get a sticker if they have four smiley faces on their chart in a week.

If it doesn't improve then I would take a break till he is older, and ask for a different tutor book when starting again, to avoid negative connotations of 'I couldn't do this bit'.

PastSellByDate · 06/10/2014 13:17

Sweetasstivia:

I wonder if it might not be that the novelty has worn off - and now he just sees it as work.

With DD2 (who plays violin) - she used to get really frustrated with new music and sometimes there would be temper tantrums. So I worked on teaching her how to slowly work out the notes/ then the rhythm and little hints that help - listening to the song on the CD with the music book to see how it should sound/ work out the tricky bit or using you tube and seeing someone else play it.

The thing with learning any instrument is that it starts out very simply and gets progressively harder. I know at first I did help out at the start of each week with working out notes and getting the timings right. We also use a metronome to maintain rhythm (because DD2 plays in an area schools orchestra).

If your DC turns new music into a challenge: Can I learn this new piece by next Tuesday? kind of thing - it may make it more fun. Certainly we found this approach helped us through that bumpy patch between 6 months stage - 18 months stage of learning violin.

I also do try to encourage in a 30 minute practice that DD2 does 20 minutes 'new stuff' to 10 minutes (scales & reviewing older pieces). She prefers the challenge & variety of new pieces & gets very bored with her 'old music' - so this seemed a happy balance for us - but you can play with that yourself (50:50 new pieces: old pieces, etc....)

HTH

PastSellByDate · 06/10/2014 13:19

By the way - DD2 is 9 and started at 6 through school.

Notinaminutenow · 06/10/2014 17:48

O for pity's sake he's 5!

Having a row (your words) with a 5 year old about piano lessons?!

Give him a break for a while and reintroduce when he's a little older. It's not a race. If he's going to be a virtuoso then he will be whether he starts at 5 or 7.

Surely extra-curricular activities are meant to be enjoyable?

MillyMollyMama · 06/10/2014 17:52

I think 5 is too young. Can his fingers reach different keys? My DD started at nearly 7 and was keen. We had to wait for a space to become available but no-one around here started at 5. Several teachers I spoke to all said 7 was about right unless they were gifted!

Guitargirl · 06/10/2014 17:54

I agree with others that 5 is too young for formal lessons. I have a degree in music and grade 8 in two instruments, I started piano lessons at the age of 8 and my second instrument at 12 .

Legionofboom · 06/10/2014 18:13

Aside from the issue of whether he is too young for formal piano lessons or not, I am concerned that he's mumbling to himself that he can't do anything and that he's stupid

Please take some time to sit with him and together come up with lots of examples of things that he can do and that show he is not stupid. Don't let this low opinion of himself take hold. Give him evidence that he is wrong and help him feel more positive about himself.