Strongly Christian harvest festival in non-faith school

[Hooliesmoolies]

I am really annoyed about the Harvest festival at my child's school. The leadership of the school are strongly Christian and I am offended at the way they impose their own beliefs on my child's state school. I know that an act of worship is within the regulations, however the way it is implemented varies MASSIVELY across schools. And evidently, there is no choice because I live in London and so we are just lucky to have a good school at the end of the road. I'm not going to put my full rant here, but I am going to post this:

www.change.org/p/end-compulsory-worship-in-schools

For anyone who feels like me!!

yes I'm of the same train of thought but it's not something i want to participate in.

And my child goes to RE lessons.

I presume newbie's children are not expected to pray to Darwin, or actually worship the Devil on Halloween. So not quite the same thing.

Wow I don't even know where to start with newbie's comment on creationism so I won't even try.

OP I consider myself Christian and I totally see where you are coming from.

The primary school I work in is C of E and at our Harvest Festival we had prayers, Bible readings, blessings, hymns, the Lord's Prayer, the whole Christian shebang. And this is with 25% of our pupils being Jewish and another significant % Muslim. We don't have religious entrance criteria though. Anyways my whole point is that the most popular part of the service, with pupils, staff (myself included) and parents is always "Cauliflowers Fluffy".

I never mentioned creationism??

The crux of my point is I sent my child to a non faith school and I happily let him get involved with all aspects of the school. I have no problem with him being exposed to and being taught things which I don't agree with.
I feel as parents we have plenty of time to teach our children and stear them in the way we would like them to go.

Basically my point is I don't really think it matters if there is a bit of religious worship or a bit of dodgy science or a bit of running around in halloween gear.

Halloween? All Hallow's Evening may well be a Christianized festival with its roots in the pagan Samhain but apparently some scholars believe it developed independently and has soley Christian roots.

I'd worry a lot if there was any 'dodgy science' being taught in my DD's school!

I think it would be appalling if children were taught "dodgy science" at school. There is enough of that all over the media.

What specifically do you mean, newbie, by "dodgy science"?

Oh don't get me started but it's the same argument.....You obviously think that for instance the science curriculum is all fine and tick a de boo and I think the religion worship is ok.

We disagree on these things.....But the best bit is we live in a democracy and we can have these differences and it's ok.

I have no hard feeling towards anyone on here for their views and send much love to everyone.

No errorthedragon the "mainly" means that most assemblies must be of a broadly Christian nature

I think science is different - It is the study of theories that have been sufficiently tested using the scientific method and the use of the scientific method. Alternative theories have to be tested using the scientific method, and whether or not they align with a particular religion is irrelevant. Dodgy science is not satanism it is just dodgy science. I know people have written books trying to pull apart things like evolution, but they haven't argued their case well enough to be accepted science.

On the other hand I don't think there is a well argued reason for Christian workship in schools except tradition. It's a bit like the royal family. You'd probably find similar arguments for both - harmless with plenty of dressing up opportunities.

Tell us about this dodgy science.

Also, I think we'd be a bit stuffed if children weren't taught science. However, society could carry on pretty well if worship (as opposed to the study of religion) were removed from school.

I don't think that is likely to happen as so many people like a good carol service, but would rather somebody else organised it.

Because you can't say that primary school science equates to satan worship without elaboration..........

Is that to me? I meant stuff like homeopathy, but didn't want to mention it as thought it might take he thread off at a tangent...

I never mentioned creationism??

Yeah, because people upset about evolution aren't creationists. Of course.

Excellent petition, have signed, thank you.

I think 'Vive la France' with this, off with their heads bye bye Queenie, and have complete separation on church and state. I can dream

I am an atheist and have no issue with my DS learning about different religions. His school is. To a faith school and the Head is an atheist, however they still follow the curriculum and do the usual stuff at Easter and Christmas.

My DS thinks all religion is silly and made up (can't disagree with that one), so he does not join in with prayers or songs that are religious. It's his choice and his Head teacher has no issue with him not joining in.

I have always taught him to be respectful of others peoples religious views and that people are free to choose and follow any religion they want to. If he wants to to say religion is silly or call people religious nutters, he does it at home and does not insult people by airing those views in public.

He will argue his point, if someone tries to be disrespectful about his views though.

His school does go to the local church for the harvest festival. This generally consists of a nice story about helping others. Most of the songs are about harvest and nature, but you may get the odd religious song, which neither of us join in with. We all collect and donate food items for a local charity.

No errorthedragon the "mainly" means that most assemblies must be of a broadly Christian nature

yes - so clearly they do not all have to be.

great post Lucy.

also i think alot of the assemblies are useful to learn about these events in a historical context.

I remember supporting in a history class and y8s really struggling with the concepts of Christianity and the differences between catholics and protestants with Henry VIII's issues etc.

A lot of hot air is always generated over church schools. Seems to me unnecessary. My children all went to church primaries and secondaries, two of them to a Cathedral school, and one of those did A level Divinity. They are all now atheists to a man/woman. I'm still a practising Christian. Where did I go wrong (sighs deeply)!

Yes, church schools are indeed unecessary.

"also i think alot of the assemblies are useful to learn about these events in a historical context. "

No they're not. That's what RE lessons are for. Assemblies are, among other things, for ^christian collective worship".

And, as I have said before, if Christians don't think school collective worship has any impact at all on children, why are they so keen on keeping it?

Understanding the differences between Catholics and Protestants is unlikely to be helped at all by the children attending one type of service but not the other. Even worse if the school deliberately or unwittingly creates an 'us and them' bias (my DH went to a Cathedral school where he came across overt anti-catholicism... well, maybe that did inform his understanding but not in the intended manner).

the assemblies usually have a theme.

I am an Atheist myself but I think is nothing wrong with ALL children sitting down together & singing about Big Red Combine Harverster, Mr Scarecrow etc. during school's assembly. Harvest Celebrations are also about FRIENDSHIP and helping one another, learning about seasons and changing of weather. DS's class baking cakes for an elderly care home across the road of his school soon & nobody mentioned anything about Christianity or religion at his school. Friendship and extending our hand to the local community is mentioned in my DS's Harvest Assembly script. Nothing wrong with that in my opinion.