Strongly Christian harvest festival in non-faith school

[Hooliesmoolies]

I am really annoyed about the Harvest festival at my child's school. The leadership of the school are strongly Christian and I am offended at the way they impose their own beliefs on my child's state school. I know that an act of worship is within the regulations, however the way it is implemented varies MASSIVELY across schools. And evidently, there is no choice because I live in London and so we are just lucky to have a good school at the end of the road. I'm not going to put my full rant here, but I am going to post this:

www.change.org/p/end-compulsory-worship-in-schools

For anyone who feels like me!!

"Christian ethos means that Christianity permeates everything that is done in school and what the school stands for." And you want that for all state schools??

i suppose it is a tradition and part of culture. The harvest played a very important part in the rural community and shaped our school calendar.

tricky

I don't think that is what newbie's post said.

Hakluyt.....Read my previous posts. In a word though YES.... Though I'm happy to live in a democracy and not get everything I want!

newbie - sometimes a place in a faith school will be the only one offered - and not necessarily a Christian one. No, you can't be forced to send your child to it - but you won't be offered another place.

alemci - it's not 'tricky' at all. Harvest can be celebrated in an entirely secular manner, or at least not as a purely Christian festival.

i was trying to be tactful

I'm a christian so see no problem.

I am constantly amazed but the way some Christians have no problem at all imposing their faith on other people- and indeed seem to think that it's their right to do so.

I'm an atheist and see no problem with the way many (probably most non-faith) schools deal with Harvest Festival either. But what the OP describes happening at her DC's school was different.

i meant I'm biased and see Christianity as a positive but I wouldn't ram it down other's throats and I take your point

I am wondering if those who take their kids out of 'christian' stuff (harvest, christmas, easter) also take their kids out of the type of thigs we do at our school which are other faiths based.

Harvest goes waaaay back to when the farmers would gather the crops, breathe a befty sigh of relief and look forward to the winter where there was much less work to do until spring comes around again.

I think its a great festival - religious or not - as it is nowhere near as grabby and twee at christmas. Our kids collected for foodbanks this year and it was emphasised to them 'you are lucky - you get to eat and your parents don't go to bed with empty bellies because they can't afford to feed you and them'.

nicename - given that it tends to be people who are themselves religious, but of a different religion (e.g. Jehovah's Witnesses) who do withdraw their kids, then they probably do take them out of everything. Which is a shame, especially if it's a nice Harvest festival like yours sounds.

I get the impression that its aethiests who say they don't want their kids involved in the christian events. I've just not heard them say 'all religion' events.

Just curious. DS attends every event going.

i agree to some extent with that Nicename. think at times there is an anti establishment element

The OP doesn't want to take her child out of this event and wouldn't object to the kind of festival that is more about tradition, general thankfulness, sharing with others and respecting other's religious beliefs.

I can't say I've noticed that. I think you may notice more issues arising with Christianity simply because (a) there's more of it about in our society and schools, understandably and (b) more likely for children to be presented with Christianity as 'fact' than occurs with any other religion....that tends to be where we feel that a line has been crossed.

I don't know of any atheists who aren't equally happy with their kids being in a nativity play as making a diwali lamp or joining in with an Eid celebration or whatever.

nicename - it goes back to Hak's earlier distinction between religious education and worship. In most schools in England, religions other then Christianity will be looked at purely as RE, with no element of worship involved. Christianity, though, will be approached partly as something to be studied (RE), and partly as an assumed shared belief system (worship). Most atheists are happy for their children to study religion, but to to be required to take part in an act of collective worship.

'not to be required', that should have said.

"I get the impression that its aethiests who say they don't want their kids involved in the christian events. I've just not heard them say 'all religion' events"

As many people do on threads like this, you are missing the point. It is not the taking part that is the issue- it is the expectation of active worship. I am happy for my child to take part in a nativity play, or a Diwali celebration or any other faith based jolly. What I do not want is for my child to actually pray to any of the gods represented in these celebrations.

And the reason that Christianity is mentioned more often is that It is only the Christian god that children in state schools are ever asked to pray to. I can just imagine the outrage of Christians if their children were asked to pray to Allah!

Cross posted with Amber- and she put is so much better!

It is not the taking part that is the issue- it is the expectation of active worship. I am happy for my child to take part in a nativity play, or a Diwali celebration or any other faith based jolly. What I do not want is for my child to actually pray to any of the gods represented in these celebrations.

I'm a Christian and oddly I'm with the atheist on this one . I completely see the distinction you're making, although in my experience a surprising number of people don't. There is a big difference between learning about a festival and participating in it (although in my experience if I make that distinction and say I don't want my kids participating in a non-Christian festival I get told I'm a racist). As a theist I actually find the "Lets do Eid this week, Diwali next week and then Christmas a few weeks down the line" approach quite disrespectful, because it trivialises the deeply held (and often contradictory) beliefs behind those festivals. I wish schools would just leave all bloody religious festivals alone to be honest.

Somewherewest- many Christians are also secularists. That's what this thread is about really- secularism in schools. I just cannot think why anyone would not want secular schools unless they are the sort of people who are happy to impose their views on others.

Indeed. Look at the USA - the Founding Fathers built in secularism to prevent the religious discrimination and privelige many of the colonists were escaping from, mostly Christians just not he correct type. Secularism protects religious freedom.

I now teach at a non-faith school, however we still go to the local church for Harvest and Christmas services, and learn songs for those events. As an atheist music co-ordinator, I feel torn between my feelings that children in my (non-religious) school should not be singing religious songs, and that we contribute to the community, to the children's musical education and their understanding of the Christian faith that is predominant in (many parts of) England. Personally, I would prefer not to sing any religious songs, however the tradition at the school for many years has been that they attend these services. We have a Christian assembly every week, run by various visitors including the local vicar, who refuses to have any songs other than dull hymn in the church.
Therefore, we learn songs for the Harvest, Christmas and Easter services, and in between, I teach the kids fantastic songs from all other genres. I fully support parents who withdraw their children from assemblies and singing - most still attend singing, but just don't sing for the religious songs.
I attended a Catholic primary school myself, even though my parents weren't in the slightest bit religious, but I sang and played instruments all through the school - and I enjoyed it. It didn't make me believe anything religious, but I loved the music!
I would say, if you don't want your child to have religious input, withdraw them if you feel it it necessary, otherwise just teach them about your values and beliefs at home, and let them enjoy singing!

I'd rather keep the school harvest festivals and nativities and do without the people who think dinosaurs are a hoax to be honest.

(Thinking of America).