How much actual work are kids doing in reception and what would they miss if they missed it

[Italiangreyhound]

My son is only just 4 and I am not sure how much reception year he will do. The woman who will teach him has put the wind up me by implying he will not be able to catch up. He is only just 4. I am incredibly depressed at the idea that at 4 he could fall behind.

Please could I ask any parents and especially teachers or TA, just how much actual work are kids doing in reception and what would they miss if they missed it all or most of it.

I feel terrible but he is very young and there are lots of reasons for him not to rush right into school just yet so I think I am doing the right thing for him but have been made to feel like a selfish cow for holding him back!

My eldest two are both summer born and we're not ready for school the sept after their 4th bday. Our local school at the time, though ofsted outstanding and sought after just didn't feel right. It was very much geared to getting results and lacked the personal touch/friendliness)warmth that I think a primary school needs.

We had friend who were home educated and knew people in the home ed community. The county we live in has a big, busy home ed community. So we went with our instinct and kept them out of school. We still did lots, met lots of people and attended some taught workshops.

Both ds1 and ds2 thrived at home ed and we would have ccontinued longer but our hand was forced when I got post natal psychosis after ds4 was born. So they briefly attended school on a flexible school basis, but then the head teacher changed and the New one was not amenable to this.

We then looked at local schools and found one we liked and it had spaces, they visited before the summer and we're allowed to do a few taster days before starting in the Sept. They both fitted in well, no issues making friends or academically.

We followed autonomous learning when we home educated, following their lead, but they had no problems once they started in school. They are bow in yr11 and yr8 at high school and doing brilliantly :)

Ds3 started the following year and though Dec born he wasn't ready for full time school and the School were happy for him to go part time. I think he partly needed it as it had been a difficult year after ds4 was born with my illness.

So he did half days then some full days but he would have Wednesday's off. This worked well.

He was going to go full time in yr one but then got ill with Kawasaki disease, very unusual and it left him easily tired and he had to be careful not to exert himself. The school supported him doing part time. We did some work at home when he wasn't too tired. Towards the end of yr one and in yr two they did some extra work to help him catch up, they had a nurture ggroup for children needing a bit of extra support and they would do work together etc. He is now yr5 and doing fine.

I think the elder two thrived with home ed and our plan was to do it till high school age, as it was our circumstances changed. We were lucky to find a lovely school and the boys have thrived. Going part time was the right thing for ds3 and though he struggled aacademically for a while he had no issues socially etc and part time was def right for him.

Interestingly ds4 when he started reception went full time straight away, he us now yr 2. He was totally ready for school, a different character to the elder three madthings. So we did what was right for him.

Madthing5 is 3 and will start school next Sept, I will see how she is and make a judgement nearer the time and in conjunction with the school.

I think only you know your child and it sounds like you have very real concerns, moving to a new family is a huge thing for your little one and attachment issues are very important so if you think he would benefit from part time schooling then speak to the school. It would be good to have them on board.

Do you have support/advice from other adoptive parents who have faced this dilemma?

're academic stuff, you can do that at home if he is ready. The key bits of reception are the socialization and learning school routines and rules etc as teen says.

There's nothing that will happen in Reception that he can't catch up on. His attachment to you, settling in to his new home is much more important.

If by the time he starts Year 1 he can:
Sit down and concentrate on something for say, 20 minutes
Follow instructions
Listen to and talk about stories
Answer how and why questions (about things he has experienced or read about)
Talk using past, present and future tenses
Hold a pencil properly
Read simple sentences - have a knowledge of phonics (google Letters and Sounds)
Attempt some phonetic writing
Count to 20 and do some basic adding, subtracting, halving and doubling
Know colours, shapes, a bit about time, compare bigger, smaller, heavier, lighter etc

He will do absolutely fine.

I know nothing about this, but having listened at length to adoptive parents I suspect that making a strong attachment bond with you is the most important foundation in his life from now on and that you should not compromise that for anything.

You can (and will, of course) read with him, get him to tell you what is happening in a picture book story, start some phonics etc, But as far as the school will give you leeway I would not push his separation from you to any limits of what he feels comfortable with.

Will your SW help advise and negotiate with the school?

I'm inclined to agree with hollie

Threads like this make me realise how wonderful and adaptable our local school is.

We have a child who was due to start reception this year, who is very young and physically small, and she's been allowed to defer.

Plus we have a child in dd1 year (year 4) who is currently flexischooled.

They've changed the rules about deferring school starts this year. It may be worth perusing this, especially with your other circumstances.

I wouldn't want my child to miss reception. Educationally they don't learn a great deal but socially they learn heaps

I'd recommend the home ed boards for more information about flexi schooling, as it was my husband's ex who did it all and it was some years ago. When the youngest 2 started school DH & I discussed the pros and cons of full time school/home ed/flexi schooling and ended up going for full time schooling.

Our situation was different from yours, though. In the end, it was fear that our DC would miss out on friendships (as full time children tend to favour close friendships with children who are there all day) and not wanting our DC to be seen as 'other' by their peers. These, however, were the only insurmountable negatives we could find against a whole list of positives. Everything else was either very positive or could be compensated for.

(PS. Sorry for any probable possible typos, I'm on my phone)

Oh if you can start your DS in reception next year (rather than y1) then definitely push for that. that would be the best possible outcome. Try pushing the duty of care they have to LAC and that schools have a responsibility to do everything possible to meet their needs as they are considered to be 'disadvantaged' (educationally).

The adoption board should also have some friendly people who will have been through this. I too realise how amazing our school is about working closely with families with unique circumstances (this type and many others )

5madthings THANK YOU for your wisdom and I am so sorry to hear of your son's Kawasaki disease and your post natal psychosis (my friend had this or something similar and was very unwell but was fine with her second child and her pregnancy was well managed). You've certainly had a rocky road but obviously done so well for your children, thank you again.

Hollie fabulous, this is exactly what I need to know. Are you a TA, teacher or parent, just so I know? Thanks.

Blu yes social workers are helpful but once things are finalised we will lose that support in coming months. I am afraid school do not seem to understand attachment, even though they would say they do.

I'm a TA.

I'm interested in this as thinking if the option for summer born children not to apply to start a year later I may wait until the summer term of Reception to start DS. Will depend on him as he is older as he is only 5 months old now.

I would say that generally I think summer born children should start Reception in September with everyone else though, as delaying their start seems to doubly disadvantage them (being youngest/smallest AND missing out on all the social stuff).

Thanks TheEnchantedForest I will, I was all set for .... well later this year ... but the teacher has put the wind up me that so much has been missed.

Thanks Doodledot I talk to the adoption threads here a lot but I wanted an education angle. It seems to be a case of adoption and attachment issues verses educational issues. As a mum I am trying to tread that fine line; it's hard because no one seems (in real life) to be able to guide me relating these two things fully. But here, on mumsnet, I get a lot of good advice and get to hear opinions and express my situation, anonymously, which is very helpful to me.

ColdCottage my only advice is talk to local schools nearer the time, see what is and is not possible. There is lots of info out there.

Summer borns can try and join school in reception the year after they turn 4 (i.e. when they turn 5), it is legal to do so and actually illegal for a school to have a blanket policy about when children start but my experience is that schools are very reluctant to consider anything not bog standard and I really wonder why.

Hollie thanks.

My dd started reception 4 weeks ago and she does seem to have learnt loads in that short time. She can read! Only simple words admittedly but she can now blend sounds etc. It seems to have come almost by magic. Friendships are also coming along thick and fast.

So - usually I would say be very cautious about missing reception. But this is not a typical situation. It doesn't matter if your son can recite bloody Shakespeare by the end of this year - what matters is that he bonds with you. Decide what is best for bonding and then see what education you can fit around that. In a funny way he is only 5 months old - that is very young to be away from mum for 5 days a week.

Ooh - and the reason that there is such concern about keeping summer horns down a year is that if the secondaries don't agree then you could have a going straight from year 6 to year 8 situation. And secondaries hate it because it wrecks their exam stats. Oh - and once a primary agrees for one child - they'll have every pushy mum of children born after February agitating to keep their little snowflake down too.

Mumoftwoyoungkids thanks, fab. So kids going to school is what suits schools! A picture is emerging in my befuddled mind!

Thanks all.

Italian I should probably add that I'm not a teacher or a TA. Just a mum. And I only have 4 weeks of experience as a school mum too.

But schools have very limited resources for what they have to do. They are under immense pressure and in their defense I think that they do do wonderful things for the majority. As I said - I can't believe what they have done with dd already.

It is in the interest of the other 29 kids in your Ds's class that he doesn't miss too much school as otherwise the teacher / TA will have to give him more than "his fair share" ie 1 30th to catch him up. It must be ever so hard to be a teacher and have to balance these things.

Luckily you don't have this problem. Your job is to do the best for one child - yours! You can be sympathetic for the teacher and the other 29 but to put it bluntly - they are not your problem.

(And slightly more public spiritedly - I would say that the problems caused to the other 29 of having a child in their class with attachment problems will be far more extreme than the problems caused by him being a bit behind on his phonics.)

As I said - just my view as a mum! (And the daughter, granddaughter, niece, SIL and cousin of teachers!)

Mumoftwoyoungkids i am sure schools and teachers do amazing things with the kids in their care. They do, however, choose to do it and are paid to do and legally my ds is not required to be in school until he is 5.

You said "It is in the interest of the other 29 kids in your Ds's class that he doesn't miss too much school as otherwise the teacher / TA will have to give him more than "his fair share" ie 1 30th to catch him up. It must be ever so hard to be a teacher and have to balance these things."

It must but in the defence of parents who do not want their kids to go to school until they have to, if my ds has not been in the class for the last 6 months then those kids had had more than their 'fair share' of the teacher for the last 6 months so why should they resent her helping my ds?

Yes, indeed it is not my problem but more than that it is my experience that time in school does not equal ability or achievement. My dd was in school as soon as she legally could be in big school and had struggled ever since. the school never really got on top of her dyslexia and it was me who even put the wheels in motion to have it diagnosed.

And yes 100% having a child in the class who is not ready would really make life hard for the rest of the class. I wish the teachers could see this. I feel they are very blinkered, they seem to feel they know best. I also feel that the professionals change their opinion if the head is not sympathetic. I feel I was told i had a very good case until the head teacher got involved and did not seem to agree, then the support seemed to ebb away. So a positive string head can lead well but I feel can also lead people in the direction they think is best, because the head has hundreds of kids to consider! It must be hugely difficult, but again, I just need to think about my little one.

I sound very anti teachers, I am afraid most of my experiences have been relatively negative, three teachers stand out in the last few years as really good and of that number only one is still at the school.

So a positive string head = So a positive strong head!

Hi Italian, I was a primary teacher, and spent most of that time in the early years phase. I taught two children who came straight into Y1 from nursery, missing the Reception year. Both were August born, had come to the UK from war-torn areas and both they and their families had been through some extremely distressing experiences. I am also a Mum to two summer born dc's.

The two children who came from nursery into my Y1 class were both in the top groups for literacy and maths by the middle of the spring term in Y2 (I 'went up' with the Y1 classes in question to become their Y2 teacher). English was a second language for both of these children too. They were happy in school and it may sound simplistic but this was the main contributor to them making the progress they did. It isn't simplistic though, because the school had a lot of experience of teaching children with English as a Second Language and those who had had to flee their countries due to war. We also taught many children whose schooling had been disrupted again, due to war in their home countries. Most of these children went straight into the appropriate year group for their age and caught up with their peers within 12 months.

Thank you Vesta curry what a fabulous real life story (and a great name). I do feel in some ways school can't really keep a good kid down with schooling , they will rise. My ds is bright I think, but very young for 4. Also having a birth dd who was very on the ball in some areas, and very not in other areas it has all been quite tough to work out what is normal for a four year old.

I am a reception teacher and was thinking what I would suggest if you came to my school. I think I would perhaps fight for your DS to enter full time school in the next chronological year (ie a year behind). Not because of his age, but because of the recency of the adoption. Another thing I would discuss is part time school. Most reception classes really are very informal and are just as much about making friends and learning the social conventions of being in a classroom as learning reading it number. But they are so lovely, I wouldn't want a child to go straight into year one, which would probably be a shock after a nursery.

Would it not be possible for him to enter reception after Christmas? (assuming that the school don't allow you to delay reception till next year - which given his special circumstances, I would view as outrageous, by the way). You would have more time for him to bond with you, and could teach him the first term phonics and numeracy yourself. Although here again, flexi-part time schooling would be better.