Sorry if this study is old or this topic has been done to death but is there really any benefit for home work?

[Italiangreyhound]

Sorry if this study is old or this topic has been done to death but is there really any benefit for home work?

www.alfiekohn.org/teaching/rethinkinghomework.htm

www.abc.net.au/news/2012-10-24/study-finds-homework-has-limited-value/4330514

happychild.mobi/articles/what-is-the-value-of-homework-research-and-reality

My dd is dyslexic, 10 year old, and is really struggling at school. Home work is a total battle and pretty much has always been so.

She hates it, resents doing it and often ends up in tears. Tonight I was the one in tears.

Is it all for something or just a massive emotional waste of time?

Any replies very gratefully received.

Thank you in advance.

I hate homework too. DD has just gone into Y3. In addition to daily reading, and practicing times tables (and how do you practice that now they don't sing it?) we now have a book that comes home on a Friday to be back on a Tuesday, with spellings and maths. Oh joy. Homework for the weekend.

At the weekend DH works, and I do the housework, laundry, grocery shopping etc while entertaining DD. I don't want to do homework!

They used to have a termly project that was something creative. I am the least creative person I have ever met. You would spend hours struggling with it, and it was never marked . It was very obvious which ones had had lots of parental input.

I went to primary school in the 60s and 70s and never had homework. DC1 - 4 went to school in the 90s and didn't get homework. DC3 at a private primary got prep, which he stayed at school to do. No parental input whatsoever.

I'm 50/50 on homework...

DD is currently in Y1 and homework consists of filling in a Reading Report book twice a week - I write down which books we read, how many pages and comments on whether she liked the book, what she struggled with, what was easy etc. She has a book where she has to draw a picture about a book that she has just read and write or copy out a sentence about it.

Then once a week there is a Home Learning Journal - this week it was write number bonds 1-10 and draw them with objects rather than numbers. The draw a picture of a snake and write 3 sentences about it.

Other than it taking a lot of time on my part, I think it's reasonable and she can be persuaded to do it most of the time. The school is not full of ambitious parents - a large number are very chaotic and I imagine the homework is as much about identifying who is going to have problems with lack of parental input as it is about what the kids actually do.

A friend's child, at another school gets endless photocopied worksheets, spellings etc. I would not be too happy having to go through spellings with her in the evening - we don't get home till 6.30, so by the time she's had supper there is little time to do anything.

I did vast amounts as a child, but I was at a hot-housing prep so I guess it came with the territory - not sure I learnt much from it though.

Mrz-we choose to do it at home as the school did not provide enough practice and couldn't be bothered to tell us that DD was falling behind and without decent homework we didn't see it. So when we realised it we choose to do extra work at home.

Decent homework would have meant we would have capture the problem a lot earlier.

Velvet - we practice time tables in the car or when queuing while shopping. Just random questions like 3x4 or whatever number they are currently doing with older ones she is supposed to know on top of it.

She also uses Squeebles, a great app on her ipad.

Sorry, Italiangreyhound - just got in.

'Are you suggesting that if the school did not set the 'work' parents would be unable to spend time doing school stuff with their kids.' Was this to me? No, I'm not.

'I wonder what amount of children enjoy homework? I wonder how many parents enjoy doing the home work with their kids? I wonder how many children benefit from homework? Where is the evidence.' I agree! I've always hated it as a parent, but sometimes quite liked it as a child.

'I feel some of the thoughts people express are actually about some sort of fictional image of parents and children working together. If this is a true image of your experience with your kids, lovely. But for me and I would expect a lot of other people it is a very negative and unhelpful time.' For me too.

'But I don't see how extra work would "... help to level out the differences between children." if some children have less ability at school work, whether it is done at home or in an additional classroom setting.' What I meant was that it would give the children who get little or no support at home the opportunity to get at lease some support from the school. It wouldn't change anyone's ability, but it would give them the same amount of support to do the work, give them confidence, allow them to earn merits, etc.

I think anything that makes children hate learning is a BAD thing.

Lots of studies have been published stating that home work, particularly at primary level has no educational (measured "success" at the end of schooling - presumably exam league table type analysis) benefit.

When I was at school the homework I find worst (and often didn't do ) was the copy from textbook to note book type stuff. I think if you are going to allocate homework it has to be very well thought out - something to reinforce and maybe extend what has been done in school, something to enthuse and make the subject enjoyable/interesting, and something that doesn't significantly add to the teachers workload (eg extra marking). It should be a way to highlight to teacher and student any areas that the student is struggling with - and should be teamed with a student confident enough to admit they need help. I am not sure that is the way most homework works.

I have read OP's post again, so your dd is dyslexic, I can understand your pain over the homework. One of my friend, her daughter is dyslexic as well, she eventually managed a degree and a master. My friend did spend lots of time help her dd, the turning point for her dd is they found the books that her dd enjoys, so she improved massively.

I think this really depends on what your expectation for your dd. If she want to improve in adademic side, she then have to put extra time in study, be it homework or extra work you set. But of course you can choose other road to go. My friend and her husband both had PHD, so her expectation for her DD would be University. So they put down extra work in.

I have read all the post, I think most people actually agree extra work means extra gain. Just some people found they don't have time, and children don't like it.

Just look at the boys in my ds2's class, in reception and year 1, the top set boys are the boys whose parents spend time after school to read with their children and do simple math games. One of my friend, she works full time, and her ds is slightly behind in reading, and as they get up really early, the boy is too tired to read in the evening, so they manage to move the reading time to the morning for 10 minutes, then his reading improves quickly in a term.

My ds2 don't like homework as well,and our school don't have any homework except reading, this is year 2. We go to park everyday and then back to cook dinner at 5pm, he will then watch TV. But he will do a quick 10 minutes math and 10 minutes English which I set. I give him 1 star for math and 1 star for English, if he has 10 star, he will have a extra turn for minecraft, that's done the trick for him.

Just to say,I don't do homework with ds2 together, he do it himself, so I can still do my things while he does his homework.I will check for him after he has done, and tell him what he has done wrong.

I think not many children would like home work, but as long as the amount of time is not too long for their age and it became part of the routine, they will accept it.

Solopower you mentioned.....

'Are you suggesting that if the school did not set the 'work' parents would be unable to spend time doing school stuff with their kids.' Was this to me?

Not necessarily, it was just a comment, so many people have kindly commented I am not sure who said what!

Your also said homework a very negative and unhelpful time for you. I am sorry to hear that. It is for us and I wondered how others have found it and I am amazed (although not really amazed) so many others feel the same. It is comforting to know it is not just me but I am sad for others because it is so stressful. Yes, you said ... the opportunity to get at lease some support from the school, I think it is help from school and home that may help but it is (for us) just getting dd to engage that is the problem.

I really do not want to just give up on it all! My maths teacher did that with me I think, in secondary school, in the end I spent the lessons reading Jackie magazine, which I am sure my maths teacher was aware of!

yes, throckenholt,I agree... I think anything that makes children hate learning is a BAD thing.

throckenholt I agree with your other comments too.

Cloud thank you very much, yes, I agree this may be the case ...the turning point for her dd is they found the books that her dd enjoys, so she improved massively. I really do not have any expectations of what DD can achieve, I hope so much she will do what she loves, which is art and cooking and looking after animals! I just want her to enjoy life and do well in what she wants to do.

THANK YOU everyone you have made so many helpful comments, and I really feel so much better now.

Cloud just to point out that the research evidence does not say extra work means extra gain, but in fact that homework makes very little measurable difference at least for younger children.

It certainly didn't help my son to include an hour or so of additional pain in his day to add to the struggle that he already had at school. Neither should it have been necessary to have alerted his teachers to the fact that he was struggling - if they didn't notice that in the five or six hours that they spent with him every day they would have been very poor teachers indeed!

I don't actually think it made much difference to dd either, she did very well at school and would have done so anyway as a bright child with no learning disabilities. I also really wonder about the idea that if a child doesn't 'get' something at school where they are taught by a specialist that it will somehow click at home where a parent may have very little idea as to teaching methods.

I certainly realised with ds that I had no idea how to help him to read. Watching him struggle was just painful, and school didn't provide us with anything that helped that (not too surprising perhaps given that they were using very outdated methods themselves which contributed to his block and feelings of failure).

Italiangreyhound have you accessed any specialist help for your dd? What turned the corner for ds was essentially learning to read again with the help of a specialist synthetic phonics teacher. Once he realised that there was a code to reading that he could learn (like many dyslexics he is very good with patterns) it completely turned things around for him, he stopped feeling stupid and that reading was an impossible guessing task. It was amazing to see the difference, and after only a very few sessions he had pretty much caught up and indeed overtaken many of his classmates. His handwriting is still terrible but as he uses a laptop that's not so much of an issue. Not being able to read easily is such a huge handicap to schooling :(

Yes, nooka good point you have summed up very well what others have said, homework makes very little difference. And I think a large number of posters have said that and some have also said, like me, that the pain and difficulty of trying to get a child to do homework can out weight any tiny gains!

nooka we have taken our child to a dyslexia charity where she is accessed every 6 months. We cannot really afford tutoring for her and also, in some way, I resent paying for extra tuition when she is in a state school that our taxes pay for. this week I met the SENco twice and briefly spoke to her teacher too, and will have another meeting with teacher soon once they have decided some interventions for her. Last year they tried several interventions, which worked well. She is making progress but it is slow and painful and my dd really fights quite hard (I feel) for things not to change! She won't dicsuss stuff with me or work with me so her dad (my husband), who is brighter, more academic and generally calmer than me, does more work with her.

Would you think a tutor would be a good idea and how much might it cost?

Thanks one and all, even if I do not agree with other views I am delighted to hear them and to share knowledge, understanding and suggestions with one and all. THANK YOU.

I do agree with you that school should do more, and I'm glad that some of their interventions worked for your dd. ds had the misfortune of being taught using mixed methods and the school SENCO was frankly quite useless. He also wasn't considered behind enough to merit help (he needed to be two years behind and at 8 he wasn't struggling 'enough' - I'm sure if we hadn't addressed it by 10 he would have been), although he did get help for his behavioural problems but I think that addressed the symptoms rather than the causes.

My understanding is that there are lots of different underlying causes to dyslexia, some children struggle because of sight issues for example. For ds it was his working memory and phonological awareness that were holding him back (think I've got that right!) so it made sense to address those first. We were also given some fantastic advice on the primary education boards, and someone there put us in tough with ds's tutor. We only did I think five sessions one summer, so it wasn't hugely expensive (I can't remember how much each session was as it was a long time ago now), but obviously it was a bit of an investment and it might not have worked. The scheme we used was called the Sound Reading System.

So is there any real value in homework at secondary? Or for A-levels? When does it start to matter and why?

I guess the people who don't like homework are quite happy there are a research saying that homework is useless, and then can just put their mind on the rest.

I believe extra work always mean extra gain myself, of course , not just sit the children down to do anything. Homework need to be designed carefully, not every parent is able to do that. If it is set by school, of course,it would be much better.

The school ds2 is going is ofstead rated good, we don't have any homework except reading even at year 2 now. Friend's dd is going to an outstanding school, they have structured homework from early on. Despite the catchment area are similar, they have very good pasing rate in end of year 2 test. There are always a long waiting list at that school.

I think you'll find that it's the long waiting list, and therefore a critical mass of involved educated parents that makes the difference, not the homework.

We all agree involved educated parents that makes the difference, why? Isn't it that involved educated parents do more after school. Maybe we shouldn't call it homwork, but that's the extra work they do afterschool, be it read with children, playing fun education games, or point out interest science behind the fact during play, etc. Those extra works add extra gain.

Cloud I don't want to single you out but just to reply to what you said and say IMHO I am sure having parents who are educated makes a difference to kids but there is just so much more to it. There is genetics which means some children will be more inclined to certain things, good at certain things etc. It's not just as simple as saying if we do the same thing for all kids we will get the same result.

IMHO, I think tailored teaching and parenting works well as kids are all different and respond to different stimulus.

What is certain for those parents whose kids do not do well with homework (or school, or reading, writing etc) is that homework is not always beneficial.

When you say I guess the people who don't like homework are quite happy there are a research saying that homework is useless, and then can just put their mind on the rest.

Personally, I cannot speak for others of course, I am pleased that what we find so very hard to do (homework) may not be essential or important, because if it were that would be even sadder for my dyslexic dd. It is not to do with not liking homework, I am very happy for others to do it, I just feel for many kids it is unhelpful and actually more than that quite damaging. And personally as a parent I would like to see more research into what is good for kids, especially those, like my dd, who do not find school at all easy.

Those parents and children who find writing, reading, maths, sitting still, concentrating, working hard, etc easy - will almost all find home work easier. That is great for them, but just because it is so for them, it is not for us. And wishing doesn't make it so.

If the research said homework was vital, I would be very sad. BUT I cannot control the results of empirical research, what saddens me,is that there does not seem to be a lot of empirical research on homework and yet homework is still standard.

By empirical research I mean they would need to do trials in some classes, where some classes or children got homework and some did not, this would be done randomly, in a controlled way, and then the researchers would see over a period of time what, if any, difference that made.

Does anyone know of any ongoing studies like this?

This is standard for medical research, I was part of a pre-eclampsia study. I took pills not knowing if they were the real thing or if they were a placebo. They measured my results. It was all very safe and I was part of something that hopefully added to medical knowledge about pre-eclampsia. My dd is part of a school study, which is great and I am so pleased that this is going on. But it is not about homework.

But Cloud I am not disputing that homework for you and your family may be a positive experience and beneficial. I am in way doubting that for some parents and kids homework is not the kind of issue it is for us.

Thanks Nooka, throckenholt, and all, for your comments. Thank you all teachers who have contributed your thoughts.

Perhaps my hope in posting on this theme is to:
get opinions from other, so thank you all I really do appreciate it.
get advice how to help my dd from others who have been there done that
explain the problems some experience are not laziness or lack of parental will to help children

Keep your wonderful views coming.

Sorry, selected randomly, in a controlled way, by that I mean not the teacher or kids saying who will do what. I worked in market research for a while so I am not sure how much people know about it but generally the selection is very controlled by random - which is hard to explain! I guess I mean in order to really know the differences between doing and not doing home work you will need different trials in different schools. Personally, I feel this would be good because even being on a trial might actually help all kids to do well and achieve well. Hope I am making some sense!

"Those extra works add extra gain"

Absolutely, but you were saying that it was school set homework that makes the difference between the schools you talked about. I think that's extremely unlikely to be the case.........

I never think extra hard work would make every child the same, I only belive that will make each individual child gain more compare to himself if not work more. Genetics factor of course play the vital role. But for the simple Primary school stuff, most children will get it, clever children need less work, and average able children need work more.

As for school homework, if school can provide well organised homework, the less able parents may be just need to make sure children do the home work. And children from less able family can be be benefit from this.But if school doesn't set any, those able parents will find the right stuff to help their children and less able parents won't be able to do any.

Cloud I appreciate all your thoughts and I guess we will just have to agree to differ.

But just so you know, I was not implying that you said ... extra hard work would make every child the same. And of course I do not think that either. I said It's not just as simple as saying if we do the same thing for all kids we will get the same result. I don't mean the final result - I meant that if all children start at their own starting point and all get 30 minutes of homework they will still not all advance the same amount. So of course their finishing point will be different but what I really meant to say was that their advancement (if any) would be different too. By this I mean not all children will benefit from homework at all.

I am not sure if I am making sense. And you may still disagree with me but I wanted to try and clarify.

An hour and a half of my daughter crying because of home work does not help her or advance her at all, in fact I think it is detrimental. I will need to see what does help her. I am not trying to argue about other people's experiences, I can only say for my experience.

PS I am told my child is very clever, but also dyslexic, which means she is struggling with things other 9 year olds take for granted.

I see, I misunderstood your previouse post then.

I guess for your situation, maybe you can talk to your dd school about the homework, at the moment, can she not do the homework? Instead,you can try to find the sort of stuff that will suit for her.