Rewarding cleverness not hard work...

[MerryMarigold]

I am so sad today. My ds1 (y4) struggles at school - academically mostly. Anyway, it was his first day yesterday and a new 'points' system was introduced where you get prizes when you receive a certain number of points. He was getting upset this morning because he said only the clever children got points yesterday, and that the teacher only asked 'the smart children' questions and then they got points. He kept saying he is not smart and that is why he is not getting points.

This has been his experience throughout primary school, nearly always the last to be recognised, or getting very few rewards - to get onto 'gold', to get a silver pencil, to get a certificate. And never ever receiving the top prizes - child of the term, a gold pencil. I know they do try and reward effort too otherwise he would never get anything, but it is always belatedly. He tries so hard and feels so rubbish. I know this is true, because I know the kids who get all the recognition. They are already sailing through school without it! (Ds2 is one of 'them' - great for him, but he really doesn't need it). I actually believe ds1 tries harder than 'those' kids because it is so much harder for him.

It makes me so upset to think this is going to be Ds1's experience of school for the rest of his school years, gradually undermining his self confidence, so I just wanted to remind you all out there (though I am sure all MN teachers are very lovely!). It's bad enough when it gets to exam grades but surely when you are giving out points, stars, rewards, it should be the effort that counts.

I'm really sorry to hear of your Son's experience at school - is there stuff that you could do outside of school that will boost his confidence and let him achieve in other ways?

I always bang on and on to my kids - life is NOT all about academics, its about being a rounded individual overall (some of the highest academic achievers I know are completely useless in social situations, and therefore suffer terribly in that area, which IMO becomes much more important in life as you grow up and move on from the school environment).

Sometimes just having a word with teachers is enough to remind them of perhaps the more forgotten pupils.

Having said all that - your school sounds the polar opposite of ours! THe kids with the most rewards at my DS / DD school are those who need a daily dose of stickers in order to encourage them to sit still at carpet time / join in during lessons etc. So it's essentially rewarding for good behaviour, only those kids who are generally well behaved don't require the stickers therefore don't get the rewards. I completely understand this now (didnt to begin with and used to get upset that my kids rarely came out of school with stickers).

I'd have a word with your DS teacher if, after a few weeks, he doesnt get rewarded - most teachers I know like to be fair and make sure each and every child is recognised. If you explain its affecting his confidence and self esteem, I'm sure they'll want to work to help improve this for your DS.

I think you should raise the issue with the teacher as soon as possible before it affect your child's confidence.

At our school, it's similar to what sugarhoops said, point systems are mostly used to manage behaviour of difficult children and it's often the more challenging children who gets the most points. Quiet and average children don't get a look in!

Thanks so much. Yes, he does stuff outside, but the poor kid just doesn't really excel at sports either, so I am trying to find something (have been looking for a choir and possibly karate). He is very imaginative, artistic, but his social skills are also not very good (not awful as we see people all the time and he is 'used' to being around people, but he doesn't have the natural charm and flair some other kids ds2 again have). I think he would struggle a bit with drama (co-ordination and memory). It's hard to find an activity which uses imagination and creativity. Possibly languages. That could be one to look into (though budgets are limited).

I have also told him there are different kinds of clever. There is 'school clever' (which is actually pretty limited to learning stuff which you are taught and remembering it - tons of rules of language and numbers!). There is also creative clever - and he has this brain. He could be an amazing architect or art teacher, or even invent something like Facebook (he is an out of the box thinker for sure!). It's just that this is not really rewarded in school.

I understand the stickers for the behaviourally challenged. His behaviour isn't too bad according to all reports from teachers, so I think he goes under the radar and then only comes onto the radar because he hasn't understood something (simple) and then it becomes frustrating for the teacher.

Seriously, read outliers by Malcolm glad well. And show it to the teachers and anyone else who'll listen. Changed my whole view on education and also got the rewards system at my school changed-it's now based on effort in class not achievement and not homework!

I think it's difficult to please all the people all the time. My personal gripe is that my children are hard-working, but because they are not quite the top in their classes, they never get recognised for anything. They don't get the incentive prizes for good effort or citizenship, they don't get 'star of the week' because they keep their heads down, do well, and do not require special attention.

I think it would be virtually impossible to derive a rewards scheme that kept all parents happy!

Buy the teacher a opy of Mindset and add a note asking how she is going to change the way she rewards pupils after reading it.

Praising people for being "clever" is demotivating for all pupils (the clever ones can get very stressed from having to be clever all the time).

Sorry but this makes me so angry. Not all schools reward this way, not all teachers reward this way. Please help your son see how great he is. Maybe tell him about the amazing people who struggled at school (Einstein, Richard Branson, Winston Churchill, Henry Winkler etc.).

My kids sound identical to contraryish - and a teacher friend of mine classed them as 'the lost middle'. There was a thread on MN some months ago about these kids - from memory, a teacher on the thread described these 'lost middle' kids as the glue that holds a class together and without them, the classroom would not be the workable community that it is.

I'm afraid that sometimes you just have to take the situation in hand and set up a home reward system for your kids if they are failing to be recognised by the school setting. We reward for academic achievement (and pure effort) at report / parents evening time. Or for completing homework at home, or simply moving up a reading level. Not big rewards, just acknowledgment that our kids are progressing and making an effort.

I think you need to check with the teacher whether it is actually as your child is seeing it. In our experience the bright, clever children are normally the last to be rewarded and the ones who need encouragement or bribery to work hard or behave get rewarded first. It is very hard for schools to be fair and please everyone and children often do misinterpret. If it is definitely as you think then the teacher needs to be made aware of the impact on confidence and self esteem for the other children.

You get parents complaining that rude, disruptive Jane/Johnny get rewarded for the one time they behave and do what they are supposed to; you get parents complaining that their children are simply invisible and so never get rewarded; you get parents complaining that it is always the academic stars of the class that get the plaudits.

Of course they are all correct. It's a matter of perspective.

Your school's system sounds particularly rubbish though if it is as your DS says. If it were me I would give it a week and then if nothing has changed I'd have a word.

The damage that can be done to a child's self esteem at this crucial age should not be underestimated. I have a wonderful, bright, kind y7 DS who had a massive crisis of confidence in y4 - we had the worst 6 weeks of our lives - due in part to feeling that he was invisible and his (massive) efforts unappreciated.

Attitude to learning, effort, teamwork, cooperation and frankly kindness to peers, are what schools should be valuing and rewarding in addition to academic prowess.

Have a word if nothing changes soon.

Outside school how about scouts for your child? Or cadets? Non academic and lots of fab confidence building opportunities

I personally have found that my clever children generally don't get rewards first either. There are certificates given out each week and I'd say both of them end up about 2/3 of the way through.

I think there's no easy way to reward equally tbh

we had the worst 6 weeks of our lives - due in part to feeling that he was invisible and his (massive) efforts unappreciated.

Pretty much sums up the worst 4 years of our lives - since YR! That's a whole other story. I guess I am oversensitive about ds1 as he has had SUCH a hard time through his school life, and is a very sensitive kid. Not a very good combination. His self esteem has crashed. I have had threads in the past, talked to teachers etc. This teacher is an NQT so I don't want to be too demanding.

Talking about other famous people who have struggled at school is a really good idea. I'm also trying to get a private Ed Psych assessment because I think it would really help him if he had a specific diagnosis. He's so clever emotionally, visually and with language (verbally) - but everything else is a struggle.

Ds2 has reached bronze level after 3 days of school. It took ds1 about a term or more to do this!

Will definitely check out those books.

The worst I had was when a girl in my DDs reception class was told if she got so many smiley stickers she would get a Headteacher award. My DD told me this very upset as she wanted a Headteacher award too. I had to bite my tongue not to tell her to be naughty for a while, and then they would bribe her to be good too.

This makes me so angry! OP's school is counter everything that solid research recommends - ie hard work and effort should be rewarded, not 'cleverness'!
My own DC in state primary were constantly being rewarded for being 'clever' and it drove DH & I nuts, as it undermined all our own efforts to recognise effort.
Now the Dc are in indie secondary, and get two marks on their reports, one for achievement and one for effort. It is the effort one that we focus on.
DS recently got stellar results in his GCSEs - we were all obviously delighted - that his hard work led to his achievement, and focussed on that. He is clever, very clever, but hard work and resilience are life skills, plenty of 'bright' people that fritter away their talent by being complacent - encouraged by appalling teachers like the OP's

sympathies OP - my DD sounds a bit like this too. I actually know she is smart, but she has been slow to acquire skills. Her teacher in reception was brilliant at being positive, and using stars etc to encourage DD1 along, but did say to me that I'd have to watch that DD1 didn't dip below the radar in other classes. I chatted to new teacher yesterday - how's she getting on etc - reply was "well, just getting to know them" as opposed to another child "yes, great, super, no bother at all", e.g. I haven't noticed what your rather shy, quiet, quirky child is like or what she can do.

We had the same in reverse. Every week certificates and prizes were handed out for Star of The Week and Greatest Achievement, with rapturous applause in assembly and handshakes from the head. DC never got one until summer term, even if other people had had several, and they were distraught because they worked hard and got good marks and couldn't understand what they were doing wrong when the naughty kids got endless incentives and rewards.

These primary school awards suck. Just let children develop. Help them achieve their personal best but stop making it all about external praise.

I also think these awards suck.
I have a well behaved, very bright child who rarely gets rewarded for academic achievement.
Last year a child in the year above got a reward for almost being able to sound out a word...a difficult conversation with my child about why he would get a reward for that.
The 'naughty ' child gets the class bear every other week. Another difficult conversation.
When your really bright you often miss out as they just think it comes so easily.
Don't get me started on the medals, same children ever week with medal after medal for...taking part in football / rugby/ insert any random activity.

I wish my ds went to some of your schools!! It's always the hard work/ progress which should be rewarded - whether that is sounding out a word in Y3 or sitting still when it is excruciatingly difficult to do so or trying hard to learn your 12x table when you're 5 and managing it. It is hard for those where it comes easy to empathise, though. Believe me, I have 1 at each extreme and 1 in the middle. (The one in the middle, the teacher doesn't even know her name after 4 days, but anyhoo...).

I totally get why they give the struggling children the awards.

My 'bright' child doesn't need any affirmation, particularly from outside. He knows he's on the top table, he knows he's ahead of the others. He enjoys school because it's easy for him. He can talk to other children and adults easily. He's very confident as a result.

My middle one, well she could do with some encouragement, but what we provide at home seems adequate for now.

My other ds needs so much more affirmation - constantly from us, and from school. You should see his face when he gets an award or a certificate. He cried for a whole afternoon when one such award was lost by the teacher after being on a display board. He treasures a certificate he got from a climbing activity at an outdoor centre. Other kids have taken the mick since YR out of his ability (or lack of). He is well aware that he is at the bottom or near the bottom of the class, on the bottom table for every subject. He feels every failure every time he doesn't 'get it', every minute of being in the classroom is reinforcing that he's 'stupider' than the others.

Sorry, but I think it's mean to begrudge these kids awards and certificates. And I do also think they need them (but I haven't read the books yet!).

George: a difficult conversation with my child about why he would get a reward for that.

Why was it a difficult conversation? He finds it really difficult and he managed to do it = award.

Schools should always reward effort, not just achievement! I wish I was shocked at your school, OP, but I'm not.

It may be better in secondary - the DDs secondary gives ACE points - it stands for Achievement, Commitment and Effort. Yes, achievement is in there - but you also get points for being kind to other pupils (a Yr9 helping a Yr7 finding the right classroom, for example) and for trying hard. It works well, everyone gets a shot.

I don't think there's anything wrong with rewarding achievement as well as effort and hard work. Achievement is important, and every child should be enabled to achieve something relevant to their ability.

In my experience of having a clever child, they do need rewards just as much as anyone else. Your particular child may not, but that doesn't mean that lots of others don't. Children with very good social skills are rewarded by the popularity that have, children that are sporty are rewarded formally by doing well in pe lessons and in the playground, but doing your maths well doesn't come with any reward for children unless the teacher actually gives it.

I think you'd be better off focussing on your child's needs and what can be done to improve his self esteem rather than thinking about what is being done for other children. Clever ones often have their own issues as well.

MerryMarigold - bear in mind though that there are bright children who are struggling with learning difficulties or physical disabilities which mean that every day they are working probably harder than most of the rest of the class and yes they might still be in the top groups but they are seriously working to achieve that. I think ALL children need praise and reward and personality plays a large part in how much they notice if they don't get it.

Buy the teacher a opy of Mindset and add a note asking how she is going to change the way she rewards pupils after reading it.

Because that's not at all rude. By all means, speak to the teacher, discuss what your child could do to improve their chances of achieving classroom rewards, but handing the teacher some book and telling them to change their teaching methods because you said so is just silly.

yes they might still be in the top groups but they are seriously working to achieve that.

I think being in the top group is some kind of reward in itself. Even the satisfaction which comes from understanding new concepts. I am not saying they shouldn't be rewarded at all, but their need is usually less.

Imagine working your socks off and either being very average or actually at the bottom! Where do you get any satisfaction.

And for those of you saying I need to concentrate on my own child and increasing his self esteem. Do you really think I am not doing that? What I am arguing for is for schools to concentrate more on hard work than cleverness. Achievement is usually the result of hard work but not always and for everyone.