Thinking of Steiner / Home Ed - how do you forget everything you think you know about how education SHOULD be?

[TheFairiesAreBack]

I have just had a great conversation with someone who has put their child into a Steiner school - all very positive.

Then talked to people about it during my lunch-break - all very negative.

I get that most people will look at any 'alternative' kind of schooling through very narrow eyes, as in we mostly all grow up thinking education is done in a certain way - the way were used to, with targets and framework and discipline...

So can anyone tell me how easy or difficult it has been to leave that behind when choosing to educate your child(ren) in an alternative way like Steiner or Home ed?

How do you make that commitment, how do you deal with comparisons to other children (friends/Family)?

Has it been a good or bad experience? would you recommend it?

Hi taker, it's the Cardiff one.

My problem with 'visit lots of schools' is that we really are limited to just three. There are better ones but we don't stand a chance as out of catchment.

I mean Takver!
I was raised in west Wales and learned Welsh from the age of seven and know it's an advantage but I hear such bad stuff about it here in South Wales, with kids struggling particularly if they are not native Welsh speakers. I do speak some Welsh but not fluently.

RE the exams issue, of course I expect that my son will d exams but I don't think he needs to be a straight A university graduate to do well. It may help depending on what he wants to do or it may not. He may end up achieving a lot in his life that is not based upon how big a wage he can get. Inthinkmthere's a huge difference between being educated and being illiterate and un-educated. Obviously I don't want him to be the latter but I doubt that is likely to happen given the advantages he already has compared to many in my community.

Ah, not so helpful then! I'm sure it's different re. Welsh in Cardiff - it's so widely spoken here that it's an issue for a lot of people I know job hunting just finding they're always being pipped by someone with equal experience who's also a Welsh speaker.

fromparistoberlin73 - My DD goes to an inner city school with over 70% FSM and over 80% EAL.

The high number of FSM means a lot of extra money. My DD's reception class had 2 qualified teachers and a very experienced full-time TA and huge amounts of attention. She has never been ignored. Those who struggle have daily 1-2-1 sessions in the areas they struggle in.

This year, the school got 100% of their children to L4 at KS2 in all areas, 80% to L5 in all areas and a sizeable percentage got L6 in maths.

As of next term, 50% of maths lessons will be taught outdoors for the next 2 years. Her class has weekly visits from outside experts, zoo bus, theatre trips etc. The HT is hugely aspirational for both the school and the students and it shows.

My opinion of state education was turned on its head by my daughters experience.

We looked into home ed and found that we couldnt afford it - ie the time that.we as parents would have to be at home.resulting in lost earnings. We too are in an inner city school with hefty pupil premium paying for a teacher, an almost teacher (sorry dont know the official term) plus 1-2 TAs. I laugh at the idea of being ignored! Extra reading, extra math, art, theatre trips etc etc Also I didnt appreciate that when everyone comes.from such different backgrounds then noone.stands out. Bullying is more likely in a homogenous group where small differences matter as far as.i can see from our classes. Good luck with your choice

EAL (English as an Additional Language) also doesn't mean that the children don't speak English - just means they speak another language as well. There may be some who don't speak English at all, but schools are very used to dealing with this and putting help in place.

Even though as a white Anglo-Saxon type, DD is one of only 3 in her class - others are mainly Black African and then a mix of Chinese, Middle Eastern, Japanese and a variety of Western and Eastern Europeans. The most advanced child in the class is actually mother-tongue German.

Larger class sizes have a lot to recommend them. I was in a class of 12 at a private prep and was horribly bullied by the only other girl in the class for years. With an intake of 60, classes can be rejigged every year to separate the naughty ones, ensure a good mix of abilities and ages and deal with any serious personality clashes. Also a huge friendship pool available.

We're thinking of leaving London in the next year or so, but DD will commute in with us - I hate the idea of her in a school full of other white MC children when she has all the advantages of mixing with children from very different cultures and very different socio-economic groups.

If you are in an area with a number of primary school options (ie not a tiny village with the one school within 10 miles kind of thing) then go and see them all, ask loads of questions and see what you think - education has changed incredibly and the EYFS is fantastic. I couldn't begin to provide DD with everything she gets at school in terms of activities and experiences. DD was way down the waiting list for her school, but a place came up half-way through the Autumn term, so it's worth trying for one if you like it even if it's not immediately in catchment.

I really know where you are coming from as I had exactly the same worries and doubts about what a school could provide and having seriously considered HE.

Pyrrah is right. EAL is another way of saying bilingual. It doesn't mean that the children don't speak English or that they will drag down standards.

Thanks for the additional replies.

This is from the Estyn Report of the school he is probably going to go to (My preference from the choice we have and also the nearest to our house)

'On entry, levels of basic skills are generally well below those expected of this age.Many have underdeveloped English language skills when they begin. Nearly all arefrom the local area.

Pupils generally come from backgrounds which are disadvantaged. A significant proportion of these come from families who are seeking asylum. Forty per cent of pupils are considered eligible for free school meals, which is around twice the national average. The home language of 32% is English. There are 25 other first languages spoken at home; of these 15% speak Bengali, 13% Arabic and 11% Somali. Forty-five pupils have support in English as an additional language, of whom 36 are new to English. No pupil has Welsh as a first language. The school experiences a high degree of pupil mobility; in recent years around 30% of pupils have left the school between the ages of five and seven and 34% have left between the ages of seven and eleven.

The headteacher has been absent for approximately one and a half years. The deputy headteacher has been the acting headteacher during this time.'

I think the fact that a significant amount of the kids move on / leave is more worrying than the language issue. it is probably unsettling for those who remain. However this only seem to effect the first couple of years so things will settle.

I wish there was a way to talk to other parents who already have children there but I don't know any.

"Pupils begin school in the nursery with levels of basic skills which are often well below those expected and found amongst pupils of this age, particularly in oracy. Many start school with English as an additional language and a significant minority join the school at other times with little or no English. By the end of the reception year, many pupils make good progress in their acquisition of basic skills. However, they are still below the levels expected for five year olds. At the end of the Foundation Phase over the last five years, the proportion of seven year olds reaching the expected level 2 in English, mathematics and science has been below local and national averages. The results overall have been below most of the family of schools across Wales to which this school belongs. The results in
2011 were below the expected position of this school in its family in English and science and close to the expected position in mathematics."

A significant proportion of these come from families who are seeking asylum.

probably accounts for

The school experiences a high degree of pupil mobility; in recent years around 30% of pupils have left the school between the ages of five and seven and 34% have left between the ages of seven and eleven.

scrap what I said about it leveling out after the early years - I have re-read and it actually gets worse!

yeah - I completely understand it's to do with the high refugee population. I don't have any problem with their refugee status BTW.

Many schools including the one where I teach have a large transient population for various reasons with no adverse effect on other pupils

Thanks for the reassurance. I hope my son gets to make friends and keep friends he has made :)

I'd want to know why the head teacher has been absent for 1.5 years? How bizarre.

assuming from your post this is the school and this is the report

How good is provision? Good

Learning experiences: Good

The school provides a good range of meaningful and enriching learning experiences that match the needs of all pupils and legal requirements.
Teachers’ planning includes clearly defined plans for the development of skills in communication, numeracy and information communications technology.
In the Foundation Phase much of the learning is organised around clear aims and objectives which match the requirements for pupils of this age. Detailed and imaginative planning and organisation ensure that pupils are suitably challenged by relevant activities that extend their skills and knowledge systematically.
In key stage 2 teachers’ planning is based on the skills curriculum, although this is in the early stages of development. The careful organisation of classes and groupings has a positive impact on the quality of learning. Support for pupils is well targeted, especially in literacy. Learning activities are further enhanced through a wide range of extra-curricular activities.

Learning environment: Good

The school has a strong inclusive ethos. There are good procedures for dealing with race equality, disability and equal opportunities and all relevant policies are in place. Pupils have equal opportunities in all aspects of school life and their tolerant attitudes, courtesy and responsible behaviour are a credit to the school. There is a clear emphasis on recognising, respecting and celebrating diversity. This is a strength.
The accommodation in the school is good and it is well resourced. All areas are brightly decorated and the school is cleaned to a good standard. The displays are attractive and aid pupils’ learning. Although there is no outdoor grassed area, the concrete playgrounds provide a suitable space for outdoor play and are colourfully painted for games. The Foundation Phase play area is well developed and provides a suitable place for the youngest pupils to learn and to play outdoors safely.

Op, you do realise that welsh schools do 'learning though play' until year 3? In my experience they are very different to English schools, and so most of the stories you hear on mumsnet. My kids school has an outdoor area with picnic benches where they do activities, outdoor reading areas, school garden etc etc. they go outside whenever possible basically and all learning is very informal. A lot of schools round here also actively do the forest school scheme. Have you looked round all the schools you have a chance of getting into? I wouldn't take to much notice of reports.

The HT being absent for such a long time would bother me, tbh. A school like the one described needs good leadership to hold everything together and maintain consistency of teaching across the whole age range, imo. The deputy may be great as acting HT, but where is the support for the deputy, now that he/she is stepping in for the HT? 1.5 years is a very long time to cover for someone!!!! It would also bother me that the school doesn't do as well as other comparable schools - fine that it doesn't do as well as others in the area that probably have a different make-up, but not so fine it doesn't do as well as other schools with a similar intake of children.

Have you looked round all the schools available? I presume, from what you write, that whilst you have misgivings about your local schools, you are not so incredibly alarmed by them that you would consider moving house to get away from them!

from the report rabbitstew

The acting headteacher provides a determined and well-informed lead. However, the well-chosen initiatives which have been planned well and undertaken have yet to impact significantly on raising standards in the school.
The senior management team works closely together and has put in place
appropriate plans to address a wide range of concerns. However, individual
responsibilities have yet to be developed and middle and senior management roles rationalised.

Hi there,
Thanks for the further replies.

The school now has a new head teacher (The Estyn report is from 2012 I think). Originally I hadn't even considered the school but they have seemed to up their game since teh previous report although the report does mention that all the recommended initiatives had only really be implemented just before they were tested so that worries me a bit.

I am planning on visiting the schools next term (We have to make a decision in October) and have spoken a few times to the admin at this particular school and they are always nice. I prefer this school because it's the smallest out of the options I have.

Over all it is classed as Adequate.

I don't want to put him into a Welsh school for various reasons but it's interesting to see that do learning through play up to year 3!

I would consider moving but my house has lost value since I bought it and we would lose money by moving. We considered renting in another part of town but don't have the finances to set that up at the moment.

Just to give you an idea of the differences we are talking about between schools:

The individual school budget per pupil for ** School in 2011/2012
means that the budget is £3,853 per pupil. The maximum per pupil in the primary schools in Cardiff is £19,708 and the minimum is £2,828

"Performance is adequate because:
? although there is evidence of good achievement in pupils’ work and lessons
observed, overall standards in national teacher assessments are generally
lower than local, national and family averages, especially among boys;
? pupils in key stage 2 make insufficient progress in Welsh as a second
language;
? although the ethos of the school is positive and learning experiences are rich
and stimulating, pupils’ understanding of how to develop and use their skills
for learning is underdeveloped;
? attendance levels are well below those expected; and
? assessment for learning has only been recently introduced."

I will probably end up putting him there, it's the better choice over all for him as it's the nearest, the smallest, the most improved...

Well, it does sound as though your preferred school is doing positive things to address its issues and has a lot of good things going for it in terms of general atmosphere, if not currently in academic results! I don't think small is necessarily best, though. How small is small and why do you favour that?

The 2012 report shows a school that has the capacity to improve, one that provides good learning oportunites, with good resources and learning environments where all children are well supported.

The Welsh national curriculum (Foundation Phase) makes learning through play statutory in all schools in Wales.