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Thinking of Steiner / Home Ed - how do you forget everything you think you know about how education SHOULD be?

121 replies

TheFairiesAreBack · 28/07/2014 13:51

I have just had a great conversation with someone who has put their child into a Steiner school - all very positive.

Then talked to people about it during my lunch-break - all very negative.

I get that most people will look at any 'alternative' kind of schooling through very narrow eyes, as in we mostly all grow up thinking education is done in a certain way - the way were used to, with targets and framework and discipline...

So can anyone tell me how easy or difficult it has been to leave that behind when choosing to educate your child(ren) in an alternative way like Steiner or Home ed?

How do you make that commitment, how do you deal with comparisons to other children (friends/Family)?

Has it been a good or bad experience? would you recommend it?

OP posts:
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AMumInScotland · 28/07/2014 15:58

Fair enough, they are both alternatives to the 'norm' and therefore 'things to be justified' in many peoples eyes.

The main keys to dealing with criticism are -

  1. research your topic, so that you can answer common questions
  2. don't be over-arrogant and give the impression that you are the only person who gives a damn about their child's education and that anyone who chooses school is just a mindless sheep
  3. consider whether common criticisms have any validity, and think about how to address those. eg HE/social skills
  4. Be calm and repeat a useful phrase like "We'll see how it goes for a term/ a year" to use at the start, to be gradually replaced by "Well, we've been doing it for x terms/years and it is going very well for us so far"
  5. Try not to rise to the bait when people are just determined to find fault - some people will do that whatever your choices
TheFairiesAreBack · 28/07/2014 15:59

"I'm not sure WHAT HE has to do with Steiner? "

I was just referencing them both as alternatives to 'mainstream' education which many people see as being negative. I.e they both have negative connotations surrounding them by people who might not have ever considered or done either of them. Am I making sense?

I mentioned HE and Steiner after a conversation with workmates in my lunch hour where all the opinions given were very sneery. The same people might be sneery about home birth too for example - because they don't understand it so they are scared of it because their idea of education is a very narrow one based upon how they think educating should be done.

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morethanpotatoprints · 28/07/2014 15:59

Hello OP

We H.ed and wouldn't have looked at Steiner having readup about their Philosohy and visited one near to us.
If you believe in their philosophy and you think it is for you then go and visit a few to get an idea.

In terms of being able to encourage learning in other ways than formally with targets and assessment etc is to do the reverse of what a tacher may do and spend a term or half a term/ however long it takes to deschool.

Then you can decide if you want to follow a structured approach with workbooks, timetables, plans etc, or if you want to follow an autonomous route, completely child lead.
We have a mixture of semi structured and autonomous depending on the subject.

worldgonecrazy · 28/07/2014 16:02

My dd goes to Steiner.

To address some points in this thread: the supposed shut down of anti-Steiner threads on mumsnet? Often I see a lot of anti-Steiner comments and the pro-Steiners are a lot fewer. There are several people who are vehemently anti-Steiner, one or two of whom have actually had Steiner experience.

Black paint? There are paints of all colours used in DD's school, and the artwork of the older children is really, really excellent. I have not seen the oft-mentioned "sameness" anymore than my own school days when we would all have to paint a viking scene, or create a piece of art using a certain technique.

Bullying - not saying it doesn't happen. DD's school has an anti-bullying policy in place, in common with most schools, state or otherwise. Funnily enough, bullying happens at quite a lot of schools, Steiner or otherwise. I'm really sorry some children had a horrid time at Steiner, I'm also really sorry some children had a horrid time at private school and I'm really sorry a lot of children had a horrid time at state school.

Discourages free-thinking? The young adults at DD's school are brilliant - confident, educated, articulate, healthy, open-minded, semi-typical teenagers.

No TV - actually, Steiner Schools are aware of the pressures of technology. They discourage the use of computers, TV, etc. rather than an outright ban. Most parents seem to go for limited access, e.g. at weekends. The technology thing is quite interesting, this link might be of interest Steiner in Silicon Valley.

The woo thing. Steiner believed in woo. Some Steiner teachers believe in woo. Some Steiner teachers don't believe in woo. My next door neighbour believes in a different type of woo. I believe in woo sometimes but othertimes I'm a hardcore rationalist. To be honest, I don't care what Steiner or the teachers believe, they don't teach what they believe to the pupils, so they can believe that the earth is made of toffee for all I care, or even that 2000 years ago some guy died and came back to life three days later and will take all our sins away, as long as they don't teach my child that as a truth (which is why I would never send a child to a Christian school).

Reading/writing. There is nothing to stop you teaching this at home if it bothers you that much. DD's class is about 50/50 split. The important thing is not forcing a child to do something so that they come to dislike doing it. DD loves reading, we don't force it. She likes writing, we don't force it. We aren't going to judge her for not doing it to the same standards as a child at the local prep who has been pressured by parents to be top of the class at reading/writing, nor are we going to judge her against those state school children who leave primary unable to read/write either. When I see the upper school pupils and the genuine passion they have for Shakespeare, it doesn't bother me one bit what she is doing now. There is a genuine love of the subject demonstrated by the older pupils so the school must be doing something right.

Tests. Last year several of my FB friends had children going through SATS. Two children at one school had been sent home due to panic attacks and another was off with severe stress. All so teachers can see how well a child is doing? Really? Like a teacher can't tell how well a child is doing without SATS? No wonder the state system is screwed. If ever I wonder if I've done the right thing, then that seals the deal for me. DD is so happy at her school, she has great friends, some of whom come from lentil-weaving families, and some of whom come from big black shiny executive 4 x 4 families, and most of whom are like us, somewhere in the middle families.

Sorry, that post turned into a bit of a long one. It does annoy me that there is the whole "not allowed to say anything anti-Steiner" when the Steiner threads are usually filled with people saying woo-black-paint-sameness-woo-bullying-woo-run bullshit.

TheFairiesAreBack · 28/07/2014 16:02

Sadly HE is not an option for us, I just wanted to know how people deal with the uncertainty/criticism etc.

Thanks for the responses so far.

AmuminScotland that's a really good list.

NB - I am definitely not sold on a Steiner education.

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slightlyglitterstained · 28/07/2014 16:08

I had a homebirth. DP and I have discussed home educating, but I'd also consider sending DS to local school with careful home training on how to be a little subversive freethinker, just like my parents did for me and my siblings Grin and keep an eye on how he's getting on.

Over my dead body would DS ever go anywhere near a Steiner school. This is based on my own reading up about their philosophy, and also what I've heard from adults who'd gone through that system.

Hakluyt · 28/07/2014 16:08

Another thing Steiner are very good at is making their exam results look good. They aren't. If this matters to you, or if you think it might possibly matter to your dc, then that is something to bear in mind.

exexpat · 28/07/2014 16:09

Steiner in France took legal action to try and silence a former Steiner pupil and teacher for writing this: He went to Waldorf (background on the case here). And yes, they have caused previous threads on MN to be deleted.

I am sure the schools may suit some children, but the fact that their educational philosophy is based on reincarnation, karma, devils & spiritualism (none of which is made clear to parents, although it is part of the training for teachers) would put me off. It is also highly dogmatic and prescriptive (no black crayons, no learning to read before age 7, anti-intellectual, anti-technology, laissez faire about bullying, only painting in a certain style etc) contrary to the public view of Steiner education as being for free spirits.

Hakluyt · 28/07/2014 16:10

"careful home training on how to be a little subversive freethinker,"

He'll have to queue up with all the other little subversive free thinkers in his class!

Why on earth do people have this idea that state primary education is a sausage machine?

TheFairiesAreBack · 28/07/2014 16:13

yes, well thanks for everyone who has responded to my questions with personal experience. I look forward to reading more about it.

interestingly there is no Estyn report online for the nearby Steiner school.

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Saracen · 28/07/2014 16:17

We're HE; I won't speculate about Steiner as I have no experience of it.

"I wonder if it is enough for me to put my son into a not so great state school in the hope that he does well academically but that I am also able to teach him some independent thought stuff at home?"

I should think that depends on why you are unimpressed with the state school. If you feel it is simply inadequate, you may be able to "top up" your son's education after school. But if you feel there are aspects of it which are positively harmful to him, then it may be impossible to counteract those negative aspects with other stuff at home.

For example, if you fear that the school won't give your child reading books which interest him, you can just take him to the library yourself after school. But if you fear that school will teach him that learning is an unpleasant chore, you may be unable to fix that by bolting on some extras after 3pm.

"So can anyone tell me how easy or difficult it has been to leave that behind when choosing to educate your child(ren) in an alternative way like Steiner or Home ed?

How do you make that commitment, how do you deal with comparisons to other children (friends/Family)?"

You let the rest of the cult indoctrinate you spend plenty of time online or in real life with others who share your values so you feel supported and can discuss your doubts with them and get their take on it. If and when you really believe that what you're doing is right for your kids, the doubts of the uninitiated people who are unfamiliar with your educational paradigm begin to matter less. Achieving this confidence is a slow process for everyone, except parents whose children have suffered in extreme and obvious ways at school.

TheFairiesAreBack · 28/07/2014 16:22

Thanks Saracen, I have such misgivings about putting him into the school nearest me (Best of a bad bunch) but I really have no idea what it will be like until I do it and the chances are I will put him in because it's what you do - then worry about stuff when and if it happens.

Choosing Steiner as an alternative may turn out to be more of a headf* and one I don't wish to take a risk on.

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worldgonecrazy · 28/07/2014 16:31

I have no idea about the exam results. I do know the local Education Authority publishes GCSE figures for 16 year olds, and as DD's school doesn't take GCSEs until 17, the figures look a bit skewiff. But they're not. The 10% Oxbridge rate is also correct.

Migsy1 · 28/07/2014 16:47

Have you ruled out other independent schools? They vary widely and offer another alternative to the local community school.

Hakluyt · 28/07/2014 17:01

I could post info about Steiner GCSE results- but I suspect it might identify the school used by at least one poster on here. So I won't. But if academic achievement is important to you, or you think it might be to your child, do not choose Steiner.

TheFairiesAreBack · 28/07/2014 17:12

"Have you ruled out other independent schools? They vary widely and offer another alternative to the local community school."

Are they all fee paying? Steiner is cheap compared to many I have see.

Though it looks like we've decided against Steiner now.

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TheFairiesAreBack · 28/07/2014 17:13

"But if academic achievement is important to you, or you think it might be to your child"

one thing I am not bothered about is exams, but I am bothered about being educated.

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TheFairiesAreBack · 28/07/2014 17:18

sorry - one of the reasons why I would consider Steiner over other independent schools is because of the 'alternativeness' of the education - if that makes sense.
The not being mainstream.

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Jux · 28/07/2014 17:26

Summerhill would have been my dream school if we'd lived near it and my mum hadn't insisted on my having a Catholic education. There are Summerhill offshoots now - I would have sent dd to the one nearish us, but dh wouldn't even discuss it. It was a lot cheaper than many private schools (round here) though, so maybe have a look at them? There may be one near you.

Hakluyt · 28/07/2014 17:31

"one thing I am not bothered about is exams, but I am bothered about being educated."

So am I. But I am also bothered about exams. Because a lot of doors are closed to children who don't have them. And I want my children to have as many doors as possible open to them- I will not make any decisions for them while they are too small to understand which shut down their options.

worldgonecrazy · 28/07/2014 17:32

PS: The only place I have heard negative comment about Steiner is on mumsnet. In real life most people are not that bothered.

Hakluyt · 28/07/2014 17:32

"Alternative" can be good and bad.

BranchingOut · 28/07/2014 17:36

In a work context, a couple of years ago, I needed to search for independent research evaluations of Steiner education.

I could not find any and a specialist education librarian could not find any - the only report I did find was produced with the heavy involvement of the Steiner Institute.

RaisinBoys · 28/07/2014 17:38

Look at your child. Do your own research. Visit lots of schools. Talk over (unfounded) concerns about EAL pupils eating into teacher time with schools.

None of the comments on here should sway you either way - they are not evidenced, at best a few are anecdotal.

We don't know your child nor what is best for them. You do.

Good luck.

Takver · 28/07/2014 18:12

TheFairiesAreBack - I'm wondering from some of your posts (being in Wales / other option being Welsh medium) if you're thinking of the Nant y Cwm steiner school? If so, I know quite a few children who have been or still are at the school, and on the whole I'd say they've had positive experiences.

I suspect it's perhaps less Steiner-y than some - certainly dd's friends who go there are as likely to have a smartphone / tablet / play computer games as any other dc I know, & also to read before age 7. In fact, they're probably ahead in reading in English compared to state school dc as they seem to start on reading later here in general, and only in Welsh for the first few years, so dd didn't do any english language reading until yr 3. Those who've moved into the state system at 14 to do GCSEs seem to transfer over with no real problems.

In fact, the main serious disadvantage I'd see is the lack of Welsh - it may not seem a big issue if you've got a toddler, but if they want to work in Wales it will limit their options in the future. That and the cost of course!

If you are in this area, you're also certainly not going to be an oddity choosing home ed or alternative education, the place is crawling with hippies Grin