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Original poster

KS1 Level 3 Sats

71 replies

wigglywoowoo · 05/07/2014 21:56

We have had DD's SATS results and she has done better than I was expecting. Previously we have been given sublevels but this is just a 3 Does this mean that she is working at a minimum 3b or could it be a 3c? We've also had some SATS test results reported but not all. Any idea why they would not report all results? Dd told me when she did the test during sats week.
Our school are keeping the NC levels next year so it is relelvant for future assessment.

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IsItFridayYetPlease · 05/07/2014 22:09

Tests are just used as part of the evidence teachers use to make teacher assessment levels. It is the teacher assessed levels that are reported. If you are taking about the level 3 being awarded on the test paper there is no way to define if it as c, b or a as the test is x points = not awarded y points or higher = L3, no sub-divisions like the scores on the L2 papers.
You mention missing test scores; which test levels do you have and which are you missing? I might be able to enlighten you further if I know this.

WorraLiberty · 05/07/2014 22:12

Your DD has done extremely well Grin

There are no sub levels because at KS1 a level 3 is the highest, so there is nothing for her to 'work towards' if that makes sense?

KS1 SATS are marked by the school teachers themselves...but they are sometimes spot checked, so some have to be sent away to be marked externally. This is to rule out any cheating and to make sure the staff are marking correctly.

All the results will be reported publicly in a couple of months.

Original poster
wigglywoowoo · 05/07/2014 22:16

Thanks for your help. The report gives teacher assessed levels and then also reports Sats test levels but the only test reported is writing, numeracy is listed but is blank and reading is not mentioned.

Would the teacher assessment have been sub leveled but just reported as a whole number?

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Original poster
wigglywoowoo · 05/07/2014 22:17

So could we have had the writing test result as it was marked externally?

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AllDirections · 05/07/2014 22:19

DD3's teacher said that she could only give a 3 if the child was at a 3b level but not if they were a 3c. If they were at a 3c level then the child would get a 2a.

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 05/07/2014 22:24

No. In terms of what has to be reported to the LA only the full level e.g. 1, 2, 3 etc is reported for Science and Speaking and Listening. For reading writing and maths only a full level is recorded for levels 1 and 3. If a child is working at level 2, they are required to report a sublevel as well.

Worra isn't quite right about 3 being the highest you can get. The tests only level up to 3 (although you could give a KS2 test if you wanted) but the teacher assessment has no upper limit. It is very unusual, but not unheard of for children to be awarded level 4 at KS1.

Can't really see why they would give you some test results and not others. I's usually all or nothing.

Original poster
wigglywoowoo · 05/07/2014 22:25

Do you think that is a national policy to down grade to a level 2 if they are a 3c?

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WorraLiberty · 05/07/2014 22:25

It does look as though the writing may have been marked externally.

I'm not sure why they didn't wait until they could tell you the results of everything though.

IsItFridayYetPlease · 05/07/2014 22:27

There is no writing test, as such. There is a series of teacher marked tasks; long writing task, short writing task and spelling test that are combined to make a writing level. However there are reading comprehension and maths tests for level 3. It is not usual to have any year 2 work marked externally. The teachers have their work moderated (checked up on!) by external advisors, but they mark it all themselves.

I don't report the test scores separately to parents as we can test at any point in the school year as part of our teacher assessments. I usually do mine fairly early, so by June/July the are no reflection of the child's current level and, as such, not meaningful in the final level awarded at the end of the key stage.

Is it a standardised printout form with these levels/test boxes? That might be why it is filled out as it is.

WorraLiberty · 05/07/2014 22:28

I've never heard of downgrading to be honest

If anything some schools can be a little on the generous side when it comes to marking. This is why some have to be marked externally.

They're sent away after the teacher has already marked them...to make sure the marking is fair and consistent.

IsItFridayYetPlease · 05/07/2014 22:33

I have heard of LAs that will not accept submissions of L3 unless they are a 3B. So anyone assessed as a 3C has to be submitted as a 2A.

"They're sent away after the teacher has already marked them...to make sure the marking is fair and consistent." - I have never, in my 20+ years of Year 2 teaching, heard of this anywhere. Are you a teacher WorraLiberty, as I'd be very worried about your LA. There is no funding for it, so who pays and who marks? There is no bank of KS1 SATs markers, like there is for KS2.

HumphreyCobbler · 05/07/2014 22:41

There are moderators meetings with reps from all the other schools. The samples are anonymous. It is an effective way of checking.

My ds's school is in Wales and they have got half of the children in his class with Outcome 6 in Literacy (supposedly corresponding with Level 3). I find this amazing, I would not have levelled my son's writing at level 3 tbh.

IsItFridayYetPlease · 05/07/2014 22:48

Our external moderators come to school and randomly select children for each subject from a results list and the teachers have to find evidence to prove each child is at the level we have awarded. They then decide on if they agree with the teacher's levelling or whether it has to be adjusted. More than one or two adjustments, or huge level changes, and the whole year groups levels have to be re-assessed and re-moderated.

Original poster
wigglywoowoo · 05/07/2014 22:48

I have found it confusing as I was only expecting teacher assessment grades and receivng half the test results has been strange. I don't know if the teacher has been generous in her grades although I am aware from discussions that if DD didn't make level 3 she would have missed her targets, as she finished Y1 on 2b's. Y3 teacher has been working with the class so may have had some involvement in the assessment.

It is a computer printout so maybe the maths line shouldn't be there.

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WorraLiberty · 05/07/2014 22:52

No Friday I'm a chair of governors.

Have you really never heard of external spot checking?

The LA request a certain amount of marked tests to be sent to them. These tests are marked by designated people within the LA.

IsItFridayYetPlease · 05/07/2014 22:55

If she finished year 1 on 2bs, yes her target would definitely be L3s.

In the past I have had children achieve a L3 on the actual reading and maths SAT paper, but as the test is on a very narrow section of the L3 objectives and my other assessment show the child is not working consistently at a L3 across the whole breadth of the curriculum I have awarded a L2A at the end of the year. Some parents will not let go of the thought I am unfair to their child by not giving a L3 as they scraped that level on a one-off test. Even after lengthy explanations they have complained. This is one reason I test early in the year now, to ensure parents don't feel the test is the be all and end all.

IsItFridayYetPlease · 05/07/2014 22:56

No, never heard of external marking for Year 2. Moderating in the manner I've described up thread (even been a moderator myself).

WorraLiberty · 05/07/2014 22:58

Perhaps it's different in certain areas/boroughs?

IsItFridayYetPlease · 05/07/2014 22:58

How does that stand with people doing the tests in February as part of their teacher assessments to help make their Spring level judgements, Worra? Or does your LA insist all SATs are taken in May, as they were in the old system (years ago)?

WorraLiberty · 05/07/2014 22:59

I don't mean they are all externally marked by the way

I mean (as I said in my first post) that schools are subject to spot checks, so now and then they'll get a request from the LA to send a certain amount of marked tests to them for checking.

WorraLiberty · 05/07/2014 23:01

Yes, they're all taken in May.

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 05/07/2014 23:02

I'm with IsItFriday. I've only heard of moderation, either with moderators going in to schools or LA moderation meetings.

What would be the point in moderating the test marking? It only makes up a small part of the evidence, and the result isn't reported. If there's a discrepancy between that and the teacher assessment then the TA takes precedence as that's the level reported.

IsItFridayYetPlease · 05/07/2014 23:04

I suppose that is your LAs way of moderating. But I am concerned that your LA is more interested in tests than teacher assessments, Worra. It is the teacher assessments that override the tests if there is a difference. To make a level judgement teachers need a wide variety of writing, not just two pieces. Plus the actual mark scheme for the tests doesn't tie up perfectly with APP (not that APP is or was ever compulsory), so using the marks/levels awarded from test scores can be misleading in levelling.

WorraLiberty · 05/07/2014 23:04

I have no idea but I swear I haven't dreamt it Grin

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 05/07/2014 23:04

The LA can't insist they are all taken in May. It's would be against the ARA. There is no way they can stop the teachers giving them in the 1st week of September if they wanted to.