Loch Ness monster, accessible good state schools and other myths?

[goingforbroke]

We have a one-off opportunity to relocate from London to pretty much anywhere we like in the UK in the coming year. The only real limitation is schooling for our two children (5 and 2). Ideally we would like them to go to a state school and ultimately to go to a (non-selective) secondary school that would give them a realistic chance of getting into Russell Group Uni (or better if they are up to it). Is there anywhere in the UK that offers such schooling opportunities without requiring fits of contortion the likes of which Houdini would have been proud? I concede that many families are able to achieve this goal but I suspect its not without (legitimately) "gaming" the system. What I mean by gaming is (1) moving, perhaps several times, to get into a particular catchment area; (2) "finding" religion to qualify for faith schools;(3) tutoring to help with entrance exams for selective state schools. I'm sure there are others which I haven't thought of too.

Is there anywhere still left on this island where you can arrive mid-year, get a place in a good primary school after which one can have a reasonable expectation of getting into a good secondary school, which will in turn is experienced at successfully getting pupils into good universities...or should I get back to brothers Grimm?

Incidently, I have no ideological axe to grind...purely driven by practicalities of my personal situation.

Just to say you are not 100% guaranteeed a place in your catchment school if you move to Scotland. They do almost always have a space, but they will not exceed class sizes to slot your child in, and are not required to add an extra class or anything like that, so don't get too far planning a move on that basis without specific local knowledge as well as the basic principle.

And yes, after that you would go on a waiting list for a spcae in the right year, on an equal basis with anyone else in the catchment area - not sure if you'd get a sibling priority at that point or not.

Also, in fact you would have two catchment schools, one 'non-denominational' and one Roman Catholic - those do also accept nonRC children but obviously there will be more religious observance.

Sorry OP yes I meant to say I live in Derby. Lots and lots of good schools here. And all over the country. Honestly.

I think living in London may be skewing your viewpoint a bit. Understandably.

TinklyLittle thanks – they look pretty good. The picture emerging to me is that sixth form colleges are integral/complimentary to the state funded system. For whatever reason, I had assumed that they played a minor/secondary role to traditional secondary schools (11-18).

Kitties yes, my kids are still young. I don’t know if they will be academic in the great genetic lottery, but would like to put them in a position to take that route if they have the aptitude. The fortunes of individual schools will ebb and flow over time, but if we move to an area with ample options then we will have some margin of safety, hopefully – no certainties in life, just insurance.

clary & Lemon thanks – I guess there is no escaping selectivity completely then. It is useful to get the perspective of an educator. Perhaps the gap between O-levels and A-levels was not so great and so a “C” back then wasn’t the gloomy predictor of A-level prospects the way a GCSEs “C” is today?

AMum - thanks for the clarification. Ultimately, it appears that the system in Scotland is the same. There are so many places to available and when taken, the dreaded waiting list. Perhaps the imbalance between supply and demand isn’t as acute as it is here.

clary - thanks. Derby(shire) looks quite good…thanks for giving me a bit more faith in the system. ?

The difference is that, since most people up here will send their children to the catchment school, the council can plan ahead and make sure there are a suitable number of places for the expected demand.

Demand doesn't suddenly go up and down because of factors like league tables, or general 'hearsay' amongst parents, and there isn't a general pattern of 'looking for the best school' as most schools are quite good at appealing to the demographic in their catchment so it takes something relatively big to send parents off to find somewhere 'better' for their child.

So supply and demand are much more balanced, and changes tend to be on a longer term - eg DSs primary was switched from being a feeder from secondary A to secondary B because of changes in expected school roles, as a big batch of houses were built in the A catchment.

People not getting a place in their catchment is definitely the exception.

Scotland - Jordanhill in Glasgow or any school in East Renfrewshire. It's all in the catchment zone in Scotland

In Scotland, you register your child for stating Primary 1 at your catchment school in November , to start the following August. So you want to be moved by November to facilitate this. You can also request an out-of-catchment request for a different school too - this can be very variable depending on the area/school.

After November, the schools placemats team at the relevant council deals with the applications & informs of the outcome in April.

Most schools keep a place or 2 for children who move into the area.

If your child will be starting P2 or above, it's a case of contacting the schools yourself to see if they have a space.

We looked onto this and considered edinburgh eh9 or eh10 postcode areas. Arriving mid year = nocatchment place. All those local.schools bar 1 had waiting lists for catchment.children. They didnt start counting non catcjment. We didnt go as jobs are not easy to come by, 20% pay cut and the weather is much worse than i remembered!

Yes I believe you're right in a sense about the difference between O and A levels not being as great.

The thing is about GCSE, in my subject anyway (MFL) it can be and often is very very supported - so that a weaker student, with some good supportive input from the teacher, can produce decent, C grade, pieces of coursework - and that makes up 60% of the final grade. They still have to do OK in the exam to get a C, but I do think it is feasible to pass if you are prepared to put in some work without having a massive understanding of how to speak or write a great deal of French.

I don't suggest that this (ie not being able to speak French even though you have a GCSE) is as such a Good Thing, by the way, though I do think it is a positive thing that students who struggle with exams and quickness of thought can, with a good deal of hard graft, still achieve a C.

But yes, a C in O-level allowed you to do A level in my grammar school many years ago.

Williamwood and St Ninians both in the East Renfrewshire catchment and consistently are the number 1 and 2 performing state schools in Scotland.

Houses are expensive but if you're used to London prices you'll be fine.

My Dc's state school in Fife, Scotland, has just won a National (British) award for best international school. Children automatically get in by catchment and even if they're out of catchment, most placing requests are honoured. We're in commuting distance of Edinburgh, Glasgow, Stirling, Perth and Dundee. My kids are both doing well there and are both likely to progress to good universities.

We did but we have to drive to them.

Thanks to MNers in Scotland for all the contributions! I wonder whether it has anything to do with my Loch Ness reference …

AMum thanks for the clarification. Good to know. I was spooked a little bit by a mention of an 8 year wait for Jordanhill! I guess it must be the exception.

lots thanks, I’ll bear that in mind.

tricot I’m not sure I understand “Arriving mid year=no catchment place”. Could you elaborate? If you are an in-year transfer into a particularly catchment area you are not eligible to go on a wait list? Finding a job would not be an issue since am self-employed and non-location dependent. Interesting you mentioned the weather…perhaps I should spend some time in Scotland in the depths of winter before ever consider taking the plunge. A long time ago I was offered a job in Aberdeen. I spent a weekend there (not representative, I know) and wasn’t encouraged by the very low, very grey clouds...I hail from the Atlantic-facing west originally and, like you, when I visit the weather always seems worse than I remember it from my childhood.

clary thanks.

mrscumber & Time thanks for the tips. East Renfrewshire has come up a few times but this is the first mention of Fife.
Swift - not sure I understand…

Regarding the GCSE passes and A levels, my point was that the DCs secondary school has 3 different sixth form pathways that cater for everyone. So the less academic may not do A levels but there are other options on offer.