School don't seem to care

[king1001]

My son, aged 10 is just finishing year 5. He has just had to redo his maths paper. He did a lvl 6 paper and got 4 questions wrong 96%, which gave him a 6C, so I made him it sit a paper at home. The lvl 5 to 7. Which he scored a 90/120 without doing the mental maths section. He took it to school and showed his teacher who, asked him to sit a different lvl 5 - 7 paper at school. Which again he managed a 90/120 already giving him a 7C without the mental maths. He is gifted in other subject, too.

I am slightly concerned that without my having him do the higher level test at home, then he would have got the 6c with nothing more being done.

We have tried to contact the school and was waiting for a phone call or an email but nothing. They seem to not care about this.

I am not sure how we handle to situation we try with the school to get him on education trips with the year 6s but get told that its unfair to others in his class. We previously asked for him to go up a year which was denied. We are looking to move school but where to? Another primary school that takes the same approach? A private school that would offer better tutoring perhaps but with that comes a cost we can't really afford.

Where do we go from here?

Because when he got home, and found his test results I googled key stage 3 papers and printed off the the paper...

think this has got lost.

He doesnt do key stage 2 work. Lvls 3 to 5.

The test he did and scored 90/120 without doing the mental maths and again 90/120 at school without doing the mental maths is from here.

www.mathsmadeeasy.co.uk/ks3mathspastpapers.htm

lv 5 - 7 year 2010.

I am a very stong mathematician. I used to redo my dsis work (3 years older) and get 100% or close.
I always sat the exam papers with the rest of my year.

What I am very grateful about is that my school didn't try rushing me through. Instead they built my knowledge up with sideways extentions. The emphasis on levels has meant schools (and parents) want to see higher levels, so are inclined to rush through with just the basic information to get the next level. This means that they can do the questions and score highly, but they don't have the foundations to fall back and work out from first principals when things aren't just as they expect.

on one of my posts I got confused and stated that he aced an exam, this was a lvl 6 paper that he aced, not the key stage 2 lvl 3 to 5.

Schools don't just keeping giving children harder and harder tests just because the children get a good mark in the one designed for their year group. the school will know your son is working well above the expected level and should provide work to challenge him, they don't need to know whether he is level 6 or 7 to do that. They will not teach him GCSE maths, he should be being extended sideways not upwards, given challenges to apply his maths knowledge.

Being gifted is NOT an SEN.

I was actually put up a year, and am summer born so I'm nearly 2 years younger than some of the people I was at school with, it was fine in year 5/6 but terrible in secondary, I wasn't as mature as the rest of my class, i was too young to understand some of their jokes and conversations, I felt left out and ended up spending more time pissing around and trying to fit in than actually working in lessons (I still got 9 A's and 2 A*'s but between mocks, when I realised how much my grades had slipped and actual GCSEs I studied constantly) I was miserable. A-levels at just turned 15 were even worse and I ended up dropping out.

In contrast my little sister stayed in the right year group for her age and went to grammar, she got A's for her mocks (only did GCSEs this year) and got A*'s for the 2 GCSE's she took early, she loves school and is very excited about 6th form. Moving up a year is not always a good thing for gifted children.

It sounds like his school are already giving him harder work so I would just stick with it and support him at home then choose a secondary he will be supported/stretched at. School's cant be expected to retest just because you don't like the mark DS got, imo by making him resit you are just teaching him that its an option, which its not for most exams that matter.

King1001 wife here. DS T&G since year 2.... we have had problems with the school every year since then. Now that he is in year 5 and they know his abilities, he didn't even take the same test as everyone else. He took the level 6 paper, and he aced it. I mean, he totally aced it. 96% on a paper well above his peers, giving him a solid 6C (highest possible in that paper). And we're not talking about a boy gifted in Maths, we're talking about an all-rounder G&T. Yes, seriously. He is above in every subject, not just maths. When he aced this level 6 paper, we wondered how far his knowledge would go so we gained the level 5-7 paper (from the internet, its an amazing resource).....he loves maths, so was very keen to sit it at home (DS is not a normal child, we often have to tell him to stop reading/ doing maths/ researching etc)

When he showed excellent result in this level 5-7 paper, he was keen to take this to show his teacher. As the paper was done was home, it couldn't be counted so they offered to get a different level 5-7 paper for him to sit at the school. Which he has been doing this week. WE are not pushy, we don't make him do anything, he wants to do it, he ENJOYS it. We are certainly not rushing him, we all just want a better idea of where he is. Obviously, you're all new to my DS - the school have known him since year 1 and there was not any suggestion from them that we were pushing him or that it wouldn't be possible to sit the 5-7 paper. Generally speaking, we let things go at the school as get nowhere when I do try to change anything.

With the 2 papers taken on the 5-7 level, he stands at 90/120, with the last paper being sat today, we expect him to end at a 7B.

In February this year, he was a 6C.

Yes, this is about him working at his level at the school and about him being catered for. There is no one else like DS, I doubt across any primary school.

But it's just a test! I have no idea why one test result is so important to you.

The school may well have decided to give him the next paper in their own time. I have no idea why you decided to push the issue, print out papers etc.

"Mum I did really well in a test and only got 4 wrong"

I would have responded with "great! You must be really pleased. Now do you want to play in the garden or watch tv?"

Not

"Only 4 wrong! The test was too easy poppet. The school haven't given you chance to show how clever you are, let's try a harder paper and see how you do...etc..."

It's just a test.

The school will know what level he is working at and if he is interested and challenged what difference does a test make? If you feel the school are not differentiating sufficiently, deal with that, don't make a weird fuss about a test paper. Why should the school "care"? How would they satisfactorily demonstrate to you that they "cared" adequately?

Now you just sound strange (I have taught yr five pupils who were level 8 in maths btw)
Did you just come on here to boast about your sons abilities (he is talented but not unique) or to ask if the school should care more? What is the point of this thread?

How did the yr five pupil get to a level 8 without a test??

We came on here for advice about the school relationship.

Which parent doesn't want the best for their children?

Why is our motive in question?

Where are you getting the 75% from??

Now you just sound strange (I have taught yr five pupils who were level 8 in maths btw)
Did you just come on here to boast about your sons abilities (he is talented but not unique) or to ask if the school should care more? What is the point of this thread? cough cough bull*

You must have been very lucky to have taught so many year 5 pupils to a lvl 8 standard. Must have been a magnet for the gifted and talent.

We came here for advice on how we deal with next year? But as usual with forums it turns into a trolling exercise.

*Teacher assessment.
Teachers can gauge very well what level a pupil is working at without having to keep stopping to whip out another test paper to double check! Tests do not give the whole picture and aren't designed to.

These aren't GCSEs where the test paper leads to a final grade - these are rough measures of ability used to track progress so performance in the classroom is given as much weight as performance on a test paper.

Your DS got 75% in his recent test. This may mean that he is a constant level 7 over all areas of maths OR it might mean that he is a level 8 in some aspects such as ratios and algebra but only a level 6 in data handling and shapes. That is where the teacher's judgement also comes into it.*

The questions he got wrong were maths that he had not been taught.

And when you sit your SATs or 11+ teacher assessment is going to help?

How did the yr five pupil get to a level 8 without a test??

That is a very silly question. A test is not needed for teachers to know what level a child is working within. Teacher assessments which are ongoing throughout the school year are a much better indicator of what level a child is working at.
I am at risk of outing myself here but my child got more than 96% in his end of year maths assessment. I didn't think he should do another test just because he clearly aced that one. I don't want him to do another test. His teacher knows what his true level is and what he is capable of doing. She differentiates his work in class and constantly challenges him with problem solving type maths and other such topics with involve a greater thought process than the type of questions that often appear in tests.

If I thought that the test result was the only indicator that the teacher uses to gauge my child's level and provide his work then I would make an appointment and go and see her and discuss my child's ability and my concerns.
I think you are too hung up on your sons test result and 'proven' level rather than concentrating your efforts on ensuring that your son is learning at an appropriate level in the classroom which is the only thing that really matters.

@Tiggytape

90/120 = 75%
Or is that not what you meant?

The 90/120 is where he sits after 2 of 3 papers being sat. It's 75% but I didn't want too much emphasis on this as he still has another paper to sit today. Why we had said 90/120 not the 75% on this paper (as that would be inaccurate given he's only taken 66% of the papers.

And when you sit your SATs or 11+ teacher assessment is going to help?

Sats results are not important for any purpose other than league tables, ofsted and school promotional material. They will not improve your child's performance.
Teacher assessments will help your child with their 11+ because the teacher will provide work based on her assessment of your child's ability and it is this work which will help your child to learn at an appropriate rate and will inform the teacher of gaps in learning which she can then concentrate on.

How exactly do you think sats levels are important to your child?

You don't seem to realise that these tests don't actually mean anything. Great if your son enjoys doing them, it's a nice hobby for him.

But they aren't teaching him things he doesn't already know! If he is doing so well on these supplementary tests you are setting at home he clearly IS already being taught well and appropriately stretched and challenged at school.

Hello OP

I think the school have supported your ds well and you should be very pleased with what they are doing.
The comparison is a G&T child being left to coast and their talent being over looked completely.
Of course ask what they are going to do to support him next year, its their job to educate him, but don't expect them to be able to do much in terms of progress forward as they may not be capable of teaching him at a higher level. I would guess they will extend sideways rather than upwards.
I disagree with those who say that G&T is not a SEN, it needs managing the same, otherwise dc can be bored, unstimulated and left to own devices. Some become naughty when bored or even disruptive.

OP, I'm not sure if H.ed is an option for you, but we haven't looked back since taking dd out of school, she is thriving in her chosen subject and has lots of time to follow her goals and ambition. she too is being extended sideways though even now as she can't train for what she wants until age 16 or so.
Good luck,