Should I be concerned about the massive emphasis on Ruth Miskin

[EnglishRose1320]

Went to a meeting about DS starting school today and they talked about read write inc a lot- seems to be the basis for all reading and writing in the class. Whilst I can see that it is a valuable tool for teachers in my personal experience it doesn't work for everyone and should be complementary to other methods of learning. Am I getting in a flap over nothing (not wanting my smallest Ds to be a big school boy) or do others find themselves not totally bowled over with Ruth Miskin and her literacy domination.
Sorry bit ranty and probably worrying over nothing. Just came away from the meeting feeling really flat which seeing as this was my school of choice feel a bit silly about.

My ds has been learning with read write inc for a few weeks at his school nursery, and his teacher was saying it doesn't work for every single child, but it works a lot better for most than any other method she has come across. Certainly, ds is loving it, and trying to read and write a lot, and desperate to learn more, so I think it suits him so far. I guess it depends on the school though, I think ours is quite flexible, maybe yours will be too?

What other methods are you wanting them to use?

Ive been really impressed by the rwi approach. It seeems better done when taken as the whole approach too. If a school properly trains each member of staff they will all be teaching a fully phonics approach unlike some schools which say they do but don't have appropiately trained teachers. You can be school based trained teacher and not have had proper phonics tuition!

We had the initial talk, then given a tour of it in action across the year groups so we can see where it leads further up the school. I was really impressed.

My daughters friends (reception) really enjoy rml and as they're grouped don't have the awareness that others are reading books/still working at sounds. They just go to their groups!

Assesment is not by the group teacher and every half term so they are grouped at their level.

It's fun, but prescriptive. A v experienced teacher wouldn't need it but I really love it as a while school approach, ensures children dont slip through the net and gets excellent results.

By other methods do you mean non phonics approaches? Schools should be pirely phonics based. Manyany schools follow either rml/rwi or jolly phonics.

Fledermaus- I don't mind what other schemes, I don't hate RWI, I was just a bit concerned about how focused they seemed on in- parents to be called in to speak with the teacher at the end of the week if we haven't done the RWI book at home 4 times in that week.
I was expecting the meeting to cover all aspects of school life, and although it skimmed over things like lunch and such like phonics was the main drill and I feel that reception year is so much more than that, I'm not saying its not important but it's not everything and it needs to be in a routine but not totally rigid, I just got the impression that they bulldozer style teach to all and your child is expected to get it whether or not it suits them if that makes any sense at all

Kveta and Beatrice it is good to hear some positive accounts of it, I have seen a mixed response personally and I know it can work

I guess schools can't afford to get a range of phonics schemes, they have to pick one.

It does sound like they are overly focussed on homework though - ours just asks you to read with your child and stresses how important it is.

Yes probably you are right about school budgets and having to choose one.

I don't think it is homework, just reading the books which I am happy to do but I am not happy to be told off and have the books banned from coming home if we don't always manage the 4 nights a week

I'm sure it will be fine, just busying worrying over things I don't need to worry about

That's v v v different to how its implemented here.

Our new parents eve was about settling into school, introducing key people, uniform, tour of the school etc. Soon into the start of reception we had an eve talk on reading and writing approaches (introduces Fred frog, explained how to pronounce sounds with children etc, shown sample books, technique.)

We then were offered a tour of the school during rml with the head in small groups, which was fantastic and personally reassured me (secondary teacher). Seeing both the v able and those that weren't as quick to pick up all focussed, on track and enjoying it really impressed me.

We've never been told to do homework with children. They had a "sounds book" in the first term with optional pages to colour/stick/cut out pictures that began with the same word. Second term they brought home ditties or books at the end of the.week, but only after they had been done to death in school. The idea being they don't actually bring anything home they can't read/beyond their phonic ability.

In year 1 they have reading records and encouraged to read daily as in any school. Honestly the jolly phonics school dowm the road has a lot more pressure/reading records in yrr. It must depend on how its implemented by the school?

The being told off and books banned thing sounds v odd!

The one thing that made me feel nervous with the reading books was this-

You really must read with them 4 times a week because we don't hear them read in school

I have never worked in a school where either the Teacher or T.A doesn't hear them read at least once a week. Is this normal in other schools? They said it was practical with the number of children- but it's 60 starting with 3 teachers plus at least 1 TA

It's good practice to follow one programme but not normal to have rules about how many times a week you must read with your child (although daily reading has many advantages for your child). Don't blame it on RWI ... it's the school's policy!

I am planning on daily reading- DS2 is a placid boy who loves trying to read, however had is been DS1 starting the pressure of having to read would of been impossible.

It just seems quite contrary to the caring, understanding side of the school that I was drawn to.

Reading is so so important but don't scare the parents with threats at the first meeting surely!

Plus RWI should be part of a package, which includes phonics and comprehension, reading enjoyment is a pretty big factor as well.

I think that's an odd school thing not a rwi thing.

And yes our school emphasised not forcing it, letting them enjoy it etc.

Plus RWI should be part of a package, which includes phonics and comprehension, reading enjoyment is a pretty big factor as well.

RWI IS part of a package which includes phonics and comprehension, and our children certainly enjoy it!

RWI does include comprehension AFAIK. In the very early stages the focus is on learning the sounds and spellings, blending and segmenting, but once they've got past that stage they practice what they have learnt using the appropriate books and there is a focus on understanding what they have read.

I'd be surprised if RWI advocated calling parents in to admonish them. I'm sure I've seen video clips of Ruth Miskin which would suggest she wouldn't be happy with that approach.

RWI has a separate comprehension scheme

I really don't see how teaching using a phonics programme would not 'include comprehension'. Once the children are reading books comprehension becomes part of the mix. It isn't explicitly stated in the programme because ponics programmes are focussed on giving children a secure start with learning letter/sound correspondences and using them for reading and spelling. But that doesn't mean that no other aspect of reading is taught as needed.

But Michael Rosen says phonics enthusiasts don't teach comprehension so it must be true ;)

I've not taught RWI, but I'm almost certain that comprehension activities with the decodable readers do form part of the initial program.

Ds has been keen to learn to read for well over a year now (he will be 5 in September) and his nursery teachers were very clear that comprehension was the bigger goal at the moment, so asked me to hold off as long as possible, and focus on reading to him and asking him to retell stories, tell me what we'd just read about, suggest different endings etc. Once they agreed that yes, he was ready for phonics (this was before they started teaching the class phonics, so I went it alone initially, just using the rwi flash card set whenever ds asked for it), they were still keen that I focus more on him understanding what words he had read than on just the individual sounds! If that makes sense? So I think, in his school anyway, comprehension is a big part of the phonics scheme.

I think there is a comprehension scheme they can go onto in key stage 2 (?) ish if they've already finished all the learning-to-read type things. Our school doesn't directly use it but uses some of the material I think.

However as soon as they are on the little reading books there is tons of comprehension. At the end of the book is questions. They spend all week on the same book discussing it in their little groups, understanding it, talking about the sounds etc. Definitely comprehension.

Kveta - I held back on teaching my daughter anything, just read tons and tons to her, and pointed out letters if she asked. I'm not too keen on flashcards in isolation and although my daughgter knew most of the one letter-one sound (or whatever it is called) in her school the first half term they go through all the sounds again anyway. I'd probably even avoid using hte RWI flashcards if thats what they will use in school (personally that is - I'm not an infant school teacher). I've certainly avoided using the RWI stories on oxford owl so she can read them from scratch at school.

It's so very exciting when they want to learn isn't it - it sounds like he will do well :)

She's learnt to read so very quickly once in reception. I'm incredibly impressed.

I'm not mad about flash cards either really, but know so little about phonics and teaching phonics, that I thought it best to go with the scheme he'll be using at school - I didn't want to teach him in a way that needs to be corrected once he starts at school!

We have not used any RWI books though - sticking with a few phonics books from the library, and one he got from a book start pack, which was a comics for phonics book (I'm hoping school has more of that range, as he loves it!). It's all about balance though, isn't it? Like he wants to know more about numbers, and I am no mathematician, so we are just counting house numbers when walking anywhere - going 'ok, that's 2, what is 2 more? yes! it's number 4! what's 2 more than 4?' and so on. So he thinks we are just playing a game, but he is inadvertently learning :o

We are doing similar with letters, and he reads EVERY road sign and house name we come across, and was trying to read some registration plates the other day, and wondering why they have numbers in them. I think he will enjoy RWI at school though, as they will obviously spend more time on it than we do at home. I am doing my level best to make home life as dull as possible at the moment, and getting him and DD to play together doing more imaginary play. This is not entirely altruistic, as I'm hoping they'll give me 5 minutes peace sometimes, but we'll pretend it's totally for their own benefit...

You sound a fantastic mum and he sounds like he will love reception :)

So having thought about it some more I'm pretty sure I am okay with RWI it is more the not listening to them read at all in school which concerns me.

RWI is incredibly tedious and so so boring for adults but does mostly seem to produce results so not overly bothered by the choice of scheme just the way they have decided to implement it.

Also moving up at stage after an assessment roughly every 6 weeks but the assessment is based on phonics only, I really don't want my son being able to parrot talk beautifully but have no clue about the context.

The more I think about it the more I realise I don't want him to do phonics so young, it works so much better when they get the understanding first. It is much harder to catch up with comprehension and love of stories, imagination and so forth than it is to catch up with the mechanics imho.