Should I be concerned about the massive emphasis on Ruth Miskin

[EnglishRose1320]

Went to a meeting about DS starting school today and they talked about read write inc a lot- seems to be the basis for all reading and writing in the class. Whilst I can see that it is a valuable tool for teachers in my personal experience it doesn't work for everyone and should be complementary to other methods of learning. Am I getting in a flap over nothing (not wanting my smallest Ds to be a big school boy) or do others find themselves not totally bowled over with Ruth Miskin and her literacy domination.
Sorry bit ranty and probably worrying over nothing. Just came away from the meeting feeling really flat which seeing as this was my school of choice feel a bit silly about.

I'm not an expert in RWI but don't know how they can't teach it without listening to children read ... so I think there may be a misunderstanding regarding what they actually mean when they say they don't listen to children read.

If a word is in the child's vocabulary why wouldn't they understand it when they decode the word?

Phonics is not taught in a vacuum so there is no reason to imagine he won't experience stories and a language rich curriculum.

That's what I am concerned about Mrz- they said 'it is crucial you listen to your child read 4 times a week because we do not have the time to listen to children read in school apart from at the 6 week assessment point' They will do breaking down words in a group everyday but not 1 to 1 reading.

I have worked with a lot of children who can read a word and not have a clue what it means unfortunately, if you teach them the tools of phonics and decoding they can decode all sorts of words and have no idea what they mean, which is why it is key that comprehension goes alongside the decoding.

I am sure he will experience stories, I am just worried that they seem to teach phonics as a separate unit to the rest of literacy and it is so important to mix together.

Really wish the government/ofsted would look at some of the other countries in Europe and see how letting children be children for longer and explore/play until they are older has much better results.

You might have a point about the reading, but I suspect what the school mean by not listening to them read is they don't hear each child read the whole book they send home on a 1:1 basis each week. They will almost certainly be hearing each child read something every day. There's plenty of schools who don't teach phonics that don't do this either and just do guided reading.

The rest I think you are worrying about unnecessarily. As far as I can see the program actively encourages discussion of the texts and words read, with literal and inferential comprehension questions and encourages children to link what they are reading with other texts they have read and their own experiences. It also encourages children to expand their vocabulary with new words from texts and to use those words in discussion about the text.

Rafa- I'd be happy if they just did guided reading and will find out if they do- guided reading normally has so much discussion involved as well that I would love for them to be doing that.

You are right I am probably worrying unnecessarily (as I suspected I was!) I think I need to take a step back and let them get on with it, grit my teeth and happily refer to an 'm' as 'Maisy mountain mmmm'

It's only for a year or so anyhow- hopefully!

Honestly, they do discuss the texts in RWI. I think your fears about comprehension are unfounded. I don't think you need to worry.

I don't think it's that different from a guided reading session, just a slightly bigger group and every child gets to read daily rather than once a week.

Why don't you ask to go into school and have a look at how they do it? go around the classrooms during literacy hour/15mins/whatever reception do.

My daughter discusses the same little book all week - they completely talk about it! It's intrinsically linked to comprehension. They are paired and read to their partner and hear their partner read every day, and the teacher can hear what is going on.

My daughter hasn't found it boring - the children and the staff I observed really enjoy it. It's a fantastic scheme.

What on earth is wrong with Maisy mountain mmm? Its no different from a a a a ants on my arm in jolly phonics etc? And it helps them form their letters. And is interesting. And the children like it and learn well.

I'm not really sure what your problem with it is? Unless you've got a personal beef with RML? I'm not quite sure what you're imagining they are doing? Is it more the shock of going up to "big school" when they are so little? I can understand that one (and made sure I chose the more play-based reception in my area!)

They will do tons of stories and after they know their sounds they are learning through reading stories.

No personal beef, I have seen it work very well.

Your right nothing really wrong with maisy mountain

Just me worrying over nothing.

I shall stop worrying and try not to be that annoying parent that fusses over everything (ponders cancelling meeting about staggered start)

Thanks for all your advice and positive feedback of RWI

I can so relate the fussing over everything (one of the reasons I was on mumsnet so much when my daughter started was to thoroughly research FML, EYFS curriculum, etc etc...) I think there's a huge shift of control over your child's life when they start school. I did research Homeschooling for a while.....

I hope school goes well. I do still think their insisting of your hearing them read 4 times a week is quite odd. There really shouldn't be any pressure on them in reception as different children really do "get it" at different times and it should all be fun. We only had the sounds to begin with too.

Is your child a young one - you could still meet about staggered start/ any worries if it will reassure you? I must admit I found seeing RML in action the most helpful thing to reassure all my questions!

We get to see RWI in action around the half term point I think, so I will go along to that.

He's not the youngest, April baby so on the younger side of the year.

My DS1 is a September baby and was totally ready for school.

DS2 has always struggled with being run down and sleeping a lot more than most so I think that is why I worry so much, he still sleeps 12+ a night with 1/2hrs most days at the minute.

Although DS1 was ready for school there is no way he would have read 4 nights a week, he hated reading books, found them tedious, we did it now and again but I didn't mind too much because he was always reading other things- if we were cooking he would try and read the ingredients, playing a board game he would have a go at the instructions and I just kept reading to him (still do actually) until he got to a level where the books engaged him.

It does feel like I am handing the reins over a bit- can't remember feeling like this with DS1 but then I had a small baby at the time and working so remember that stage as a bit of a blur anyway!

I completely agree - I'd really resent being told that. My daughter was very ready for school and loved it but even though she's flown with RML, and can read incredibly well now, I don't think it would have been the same if forced. She probably reads to me a few times a week. It's when she chooses to and I cuddle up with her and its lovely. At other times I might ask if she wants to read a bit of the bedtime story with me and its completely fine if she says no. It sounds like we have a similar approach.

I guess I'd be tempted to just not do it. I think it sounds counterproductive to them enjoying it. I thought one of RUth Miskins big "things" was that they should only come home with things they can already read/ love of learning/stories etc. It sounds a little odd.

Oh initially I never asked my daughter to read with me... just let her excitedly come home shouting "look what I can read, Mummy". Or like you let her just read things to me as she recognised them!

Nice to hear someone else do it a similar way.

I think the RWI will be great in school and I will look at the books with him as and when he wants to at home.

We only joined the school this September with DS1 when we moved so had no experience of what the foundation unit was like before. I do have to keep reminding myself though that DS1 has flown since he joined this school, he joined in Yr3 as an okay reader but now he flies through books and chats about them endlessly.

I think that what they might be trying to say is that they don't have time to listen to each child reading each week and that the more they practice the quicker they will progress. Ds loves reading and has read about 120 books since he started reading last September. My girls were reluctant to read and took longer to progress but probably read a similar number of books to get to the same stage, although it took them two years rather than one to get through that number and a lot more stress . I think saying that you will have to come in to explain is excessive and will alienate those who struggle the most in a punitive manner - working parents and those parents who struggle to read English.

Ds's reception teacher has explicitly said not to push reading beyond what they want to do. She says that she believes that the most important thing is that reading is fun and to just talk to her about other methods if they don't want to read books.

I am a bit concerned about rwi too because for medical reasons ds' s physical writing lags far beyond his reading, oral composition, knowledge of spelling and comprehension. They need to progress in all areas to go up a level so I am concerned that he will be bored. I think though that often we focus on one aspect rather than the larger thought that we are handing over our little baby to school and for me he is my last so no more going to playgroups or hanging out in playgrounds without looking a bit odd. That phase of my life is now over. Hopefully the reality will be easier than the thought of it.

The RWI groupings should be based on phonics ability alone, 3bunnies, so he shouldn't be held back. That's assuming the school are using programme as designed and aren't adapting it.

Thanks Rafels I guess I will find out more in September. They seem to use white boards and have ability split groups across infants and include spelling on them etc. They use the rwi sounds but could well have developed their own mutation on the scheme. He can barely hold a pen and his name takes a little imagination to decipher. It would be impressive if they can level his work based on his scrawls. I am sure that they will get him going on the writing. They already have him doing physio exercises with theraputty. As I say probably the one thing that I am fixating on when he will actually be more concerned about not taking his pants off when he changes for PE!

I think your right 3 bunnies worrying about RWI stops me thinking about the fact that he is going to be a big school boy and both my babies will be in school full time!

He already goes to the foundation unit and I was aware of RWI going on just didn't expect such a leap from pre-school to actual school the minute he started full time.

Glad I don't have the P.E worry, I'm sure he would totally undress given half a chance put I think they just take jumpers and socks/shoes of for P.E.

I'm sure your DS will get there with his handwriting when he is ready and most schools should view it separately from reading ability- if they didn't DS1 (8) wouldn't be anywhere near the free readers he is on because his handwriting is terrible.