Is it OK for DS school to finish at 1:15pm on last day of term & require me to pick him up?!

[ChemiseBleu]

I am so pissed off with DS's school. I thought that this year they would stop their nonsense of finishing just after lunch on the last day of each term and registering them in for the afternoon but requiring you to pick them up early.

In previous years they did this on the last day of every term and I assumed that the new "tightening" up of rules re taking DC out of school would mean they wouldn't dare do it this year...

They mention earlier in the year on the calendar a picnic at 12 noon that parents are welcome too and then start gradually drip feeding into the newsletters that you are welcome to take them home after the picnic and then BOOM today - dates for July:

Wednesday 23rd Picnic 12 noon BREAK UP 1:15pm

This means extra time off work for me.

--This from the school who wrote to me before the end of the first half term with a calculation of DS's attendance after he had had 3 days off with a bug (M-W) and then been sent home at lunch time on a F after being sick in his lunch. Considering the attendance was matched against 2 half weeks and about 4 full weeks then yes it did come out at

Actually, I can see how closing an hour early three times a year really is a big deal. With a young child, even a five minute gap, uncovered is a disaster. It's all or nothing. Many people have inflexible jobs and no family nearby. Fun changes in routine are a nightmare for them.

Flip it around, instead of asking what the big deal is about a few hours less of school a few times a year is; ask how big a deal is it to stick to normal routines for the sake of not upsetting everyone else's finely balanced child are plans?

But it doesn't upset "everyone else's" finely-balanced childcare plans. There are plenty of people just on here, for example, who don't have a problem with it.

Not sure how popular this will make me but I'll be letting my class play for the last few days of term while I get things ready for next year! standard practise in my school including a movie at the end of term

Jellybeans Are you really suggesting that, because you listen to your own children read and take them to museums, their teachers should babysit for you for free?

The real issue here is about work being so inflexible for many people that this becomes a problem. The reason it's so difficult for 'half the population to work' is that work is supposed to come before everything else at all times, and schools, parents and kids are all supposed to bend to fit in with that.

I would like to see the facilitation of working parents added to the list of criteria by which schools are judged.

I wonder if Jellybeans includes teachers in that facilitation of working parents

YANBU,
my dc secondary school finishes at 1.15 on the last day of term but offers a one off club for those who cant let their dc leave at that time. but never the primary

Mrz, absolutely. I know loads of brilliant teachers who haven't been able to return to work after having children because of the expense and difficulty of childcare. There is so much wasted female talent and experience in this this country.

And before anyone jumps down my throat I am obviously only talking about about women who would prefer to return to work if it were practically and financially feasible not those who have chosen to care for their children full time.

Toomanyhouseguests - our school (and I'm sure most schools) issues a calendar at the beginning of the year which details inset days, early finishes etc so I've known since last September that my kids will finish at lunchtime on the last day of term. Plenty of time to finely tune childcare.

Other people's schools do not always issue a calendar at the start of the year for absolutely everything ... our school told us yesterday that they will close early - after lunchtime registration of course so the session counts, and no we can't pick up at the end of the morning session as that would be an unauthorised absence..

If school is open 9 to 3.30, and I tie myself in bloody knots to find a job where I can fit my work hours round that, then they change it at short notice, I feel I DO have a right to be a little bit pissed off by it. Then I remember my 2 are at secondary now, so it doesn't matter.... but it sort of does really.

Can I just say that our school arbitrarily and with absolutely no prior notice decided to shut early one year on the last day of term before Christmas.

This caused absolute chaos with working parents and indeed non-working parents who were at playgroups/ friends and suddenly got a text that school was closing at 2 p.m.

I missed the text and was called out of a lecture and told that I had to collect my child. I had arranged child care with the after school club from the end of the school day (as advertised - 3:30 p.m.) and frankly quite rightly the after school club were unable to get staff to materialize arbitrarily at 2 p.m. Several friends who were medical staff couldn't leave theatre to pick up their children and had to hope the school would watch their children until their shift ended.

So yes Chocolatewombat & others posting - a well announced half-day is quite normal (and desirable best practice) - but some schools aren't normal and are extremely disrespectful of parental time/ duties.

We did complain to the governors and were told that junior staff were delegated that day because the SMT were at a meeting - and that this was a decision made in an overly festive spirit - but staff now appreciate that sudden closures can present substantial difficulties to parents. They agreed that there needed to be a policy and accepted our suggestions that sudden closure could only occur due to hazard/ health & safety issues (weather/ structural damage/ loss of heating/ overly hot/ etc...) or insufficient staff coverage (strike action/ epidemic/ etc...).

I don't think parents are unreasonable to feel that a few weeks notice of a shorter school day is necessary - many of us have to file requests for change of normal working ours/ Time off in lieu/ holiday 4 weeks in advance - sometimes more.

I don't mind INSET days/ half-days but a good school should be communicating such changes to the normal pattern of school hours well in advance - demonstrating respect for busy parents.

Isn't that a Catch 22 though Jellybeans?

My DS is at a school 30mins away from the one I work in. Imagine one of their teachers has a DC at my school..

If the staff at his school keep him until I've finished and driven 30mins who is looking after their DC back at my school?

The only way it really works if people who work in schools (as teachers, LSAs, after school club runners etc) have no DC of their own. TBH I think that is increasingly the way it is going. I work in a very large school and very few of the full time staff have young DC. If schools were judged on whether they offered full provision from 7.30am - 6pm for working parents it would really rule out parents working in schools.

Hi Charles, By facilitate I meant take into account and consider the needs of working parents not make teachers work from 730 am - 6pm.

I am not sure that working in an after school club (unless your children happen to go there) is ever going to be a good choice for a working parent with young DC because of the issues with travel time that you mention but I don't see why being a teacher shouldn't be.

After school clubs and breakfast clubs should be organized by the school but staffed by play workers and paid for by parents.

If the school wants to close early after sports days or at end of terms or for whatever reason it should arrange for these after school clubs to start earlier or if that isn't possible some staff should stay still the end of the normal working day or if that isn't possible they should just reconsider doing it in the first place.

School should also think carefully about things like getting reception to do half days for six weeks only. If they really need to do this can they coordinate with a childcare provider in the afternoon who can pick the children up?

The problem is that group child care is affordable (holiday clubs, breakfast clubs, after school clubs) but it needs predictable hours and coordination with the school to work properly.

More flexible childcare options like a nanny are fantastic but are just unaffordable for so many people. Childminders tend to sit in the middle in terms of cost and can often be flexible but it could be hard for example to find a childminder who just wants to look after your reception child for six weeks of half days or just do occasional pick ups when school finishes early or the odd inset day.

Jellybeans isn't it a question of working parents considering the needs of the child and therefore the routine of the school, rather than the other way round.

I'm sure a headteacher, when planning the new school term for reception, doesn't sit in his or her office saying - "you know what, I think the children need a staggered start and I'm going to do that in such a way as to maximise the disruption for parents by doing half days for 2 weeks". He or she obviously thinks that half days makes the transition better for the children and you have chosen to send your child to that school no doubt because you think your child would be happy there, the teachers are good etc. So why question those decisions purely on the basis that it doesn't quite fit for your working day?

I know we've steered a little off track, and the OP's message was about an early finish, but I do think that it should be the parents fitting in with the school rather than the other way round.

Mandy I think that the needs of the child and their family are interlinked.
So the staggered start of the child for two weeks might mean no family holiday that year as too much parental leave had been used up. The staggered start for six weeks might mean a temporary nanny needing to be hired from an agency and the family getting into debt.

I'm not sure many people can currently be said to have chosen their child's school either. It's not like we get to say, hey look there are these 2 really nice schools in the area my child could go to. School A does a special club on inset days, gives the option for reception to start full time and says in its school brochure how hard it tries to help working parents. School B closes for random half days at short notice and you have to book parents evening via a paper sheet stuck up in the school playground meaning that working parents will get the last available slot. Hey lets go for School A. I reckon that if you live in London at any rate you can currently count yourself lucky to get a decent school anywhere near where you live.

That's why I think as I said earlier that it should be a requirement for all schools to take the needs of working parents into account and it should be one of the measures on which schools are judged by Ofsted.

Mandy, parents are trying to fit in with school routines! and they do plan their child are to fit around school hours. It's when the school goes out of routine that working parents struggle.

I agree with jellybeans and I only work part-time at hours to suit me, and was a sahm for many years.

Yes, I am also a SAHM, and I think jellybeans has a quite sensible point of view.

These threads illustrate that we are slaves to our jobs and actually our employers should be flexible and schools more understanding.

The world will not end if parents need to finish early occasionally despite what some might think.

no the world won't end, but I'd rather my surgeon finished my operation before going to pick up little "johnnie" because school finished early on the last day... or is his job not included... which ones are.... therein lies the problem.

I don't agree, Jellybeans because I think its part and parcel of making decisions as a family about how you want your career / working life to be and how children / schools etc are going to fit into that or how you're going to re-jig your priorities to factor in these issues.

As I said up thread, short notice is an issue, no question about that, but term dates are usually well publicised and the way in which children start school is definitely something you'd check / ask about probably a year in advance when you're applying / looking at schools. I don't see why its a issue that means you can't have a family holiday, or you have to employ a nanny for 6 weeks if you have organised your annual leave in advance. School places are allocated in March or April - the term starts in September (6 months later) why can't you use your combined leave (presuming you and your H get around 4 weeks each) to cover that 6 weeks if you know well in advance. Worst case scenario, you both have 3 weeks off and use the other week you each have left for a short family holiday. Still have a family holiday, don't go into debt.

If you choose not to do that, and save your leave for other time off, that is your choice and schools shouldn't have to adapt what they see as the best for the children because of your choices.

Obviously, there are professions / jobs where that is not possible, but at the end of the day, its ultimately your choice as to how you juggle work / children / family life. If you know prior to having school - aged children that you / your H have inflexible jobs then you have to find a way that works for your family. But again thats down to choice, you carry on with the job / inflexibility but again, thats not something the school has to accommodate in my view.

Exactly iggly. Employers should allow more staff to have flexible working hours. My job doesn't require me to have meetings, cover the office or answer phones. We are still stuck in a daft 9-5 routine when flexi-time would suit everyone and probably stop our dire staff turnover. I can tweak my hours a little but I have to ask.

Some schools need to get their act together with regards to communication. We'll know all of next years dates / events / insets by the end of this term.

JustAShopGirl there are usually two parents so one could cover.

Schools give notice so your surgeon could get someone else to do it. Or their partner.

Why should we fix our working lives based on the most unlikely scenarios instead of the most likely scenario I.e. the world would not end.