Is it OK for DS school to finish at 1:15pm on last day of term & require me to pick him up?!

[ChemiseBleu]

I am so pissed off with DS's school. I thought that this year they would stop their nonsense of finishing just after lunch on the last day of each term and registering them in for the afternoon but requiring you to pick them up early.

In previous years they did this on the last day of every term and I assumed that the new "tightening" up of rules re taking DC out of school would mean they wouldn't dare do it this year...

They mention earlier in the year on the calendar a picnic at 12 noon that parents are welcome too and then start gradually drip feeding into the newsletters that you are welcome to take them home after the picnic and then BOOM today - dates for July:

Wednesday 23rd Picnic 12 noon BREAK UP 1:15pm

This means extra time off work for me.

--This from the school who wrote to me before the end of the first half term with a calculation of DS's attendance after he had had 3 days off with a bug (M-W) and then been sent home at lunch time on a F after being sick in his lunch. Considering the attendance was matched against 2 half weeks and about 4 full weeks then yes it did come out at

"Actually teachers for example would be the first to be hit by that sort of attitude.... No way they could just leave fir the afternoon like this"

Absolutely. DD's 2 pm finish on her last day, while I work to the end of the day [and tbh even if we finished at 2, I wouldn't leave the school grounds until 4.30 or later]. No chance of any time off for me to pick her up. DH has to take the whole day off, because of his commute making a half day ludicrous.

However, since we have known about it for 15 months, we have been able to make sensible diary arrangements for it.

"What is annoying is the amount of meetings that are arranged in school hours - parents evenings, class transition meetings, help your child read meetings, come in and make a castle with your child afternoons, summer fete, winter fair etc etc."

"My DD goes to a school with over 70% of kids on FSM and a very high proportion of non-working parents who can attend all the assemblies, making things together afternoons, meetings and other things that are arranged. DD gets very upset that I can never go to them or be the parent helper on the trips."

Isn't this part-and-parcel of what having children means? That they're going to be doing things that involve, you know, a bit of parental input/support?

Actually clam part if having children means to me that I spend time with my dcs, try and give them the best start in life. Not to be there at the disposition if school to come to an assembly with 3~5 days notice. Not to be able to go to all the sport stuff that is happening during school hours etc.
the best I can do is to ensure that I am able to bring a wage in, just like my DH does.

But the whole system is based on the assumption that mum will be there to do the pick up whenever it's necessary. On the firms at school for outings/sport day etc, the possibility that the child isn't picked up by a parent or make their way back home on their own isn't even there. Even though there is an after school club on site!!

Clam it is the opposite where we are, most are SAHMs with wealthy husbands. I feel like the peasant having to work and I can't go to all the daytime stuff either.

Lumiere.
Yes, schools CAN decide what time to finish and no, you CAN'T decide when they are then and not.
It is irrelevant that you HAVE to send your child to school by law and might not want to (are you suggesting you don't want to). As long as schools give plenty of notice of the end of school timings there is no problem with them doing it.

Parents who work full time do make sacrifices. Working full time means you probably can't make it to every school event. It isn't the schools fault. Children can only cope with a shorter working day than adults, so most of those things need to fit in with that. The schools job is to provide educational opportunities within school hours. Sometimes parents can be involved. The fact that some are at home all the time or part of the time and the fact that some have more flexibility over when they work than others, is not and cannot be the concern of the school. They should not stop putting on events that parents cannot attend, because not all will make it. So, as a working parent, I know I won't be at many of the reading mornings or plays. I have a sense of the few things I REALLY want to be at and save some time to get to those. I miss out on lots of things, but it isn't the schools fault. It is just part and parcel of working.

But regarding things like INSET days and schools finishing early, these are all normal events, announced months in advance. So I really don't accept the argument that given months and months of notice, it is impossible to make an arrangement for someone to collect. it is the parents job to find someone to do it.....and they often have a year to do so. View it exactly the same as having to have someone collect children at 3.15 each day....not always convenient, but necessary.

I agree that working is hard with children. Working parents do miss out on some things. It's impossible to be in 2 places at once. We might not like it, but it is a fact and it is not the schools fault. I say again, that organisation and planning ahead are the absolutely crucial things for worki g parents. Planning ahead will mean it might be possible to attend the odd sports day or nativity, and that you know your children will be provided for on the inevitable INSET days or half days at the end of term. Simply gather as much information as possible and start finding a way.

OK, well if it's not a priority to you to be at school for these things (and there's nothing wrong with that), then why blame the school? Unless you're suggesting schools stop organising events on account of parents who can't make them.

Oh, and what chocolatewombat just said as well.

And remember that all of those parents events during the day are optional. There is no requirement to be there.
Working parents often feel guilty about not being at every reading morning. However, we have to get beyond that. Yes, it would be nice to be there, but it is not crucial. And the fact that other parents go does not make us bad parents, nor does it make the school bad for putti g those events on during what is the childrens working day.

If we want to/need to work, then we do. This probably gives our children a better life than if we didn't, in terms of the overall impact on family life. Everything involves compromise doesn't it. We can't have everything. We can't work full time and be at every little school event. Accept it and move on.

And to those who complain about transition meetings, read with child, nativities, school fete preparation, school trips etc being during the school day, so inconvenient...exactly when do you think those things should be arranged?

We finish at lunchtime of the last day of term!

And I get its not about priorities. It isn't that working parents don't attend school events, because it isn't their priority. I understand because I work and often I simply HAVE to be in work, even though I'd rather be at the Sports Day.
I don't think most people think working parents fail to prioritise their children because they are not at every event.
Planning ahead however means there is a higher chance of getting to the odd thing.

Lumiere I couldn't disagree with you more. I didn't mean spare time, I specifically referred to keeping back some holidays (if you're an employee) to cover eventualities. You have chosen to be self employed, and actually you are much better off that the vast majority of workers because you can re-jig your day to fit in with the school finish time. If you "lose" 2 hours as a result of having to collect your daughter, surely you can add 2 hours into your working day / working week to make up for it. I am assuming that you are not working 24 hours a day / 7 days a week. That's an advantage that people who work in an office / hospital / somewhere with fixed hours simply don't have.

LumieresForMe of course the the system is based on the assumptions that a parent (or other responsible adult) can pick up your child whenever it's necessary. You are after all the child's parent, the school is not, it is there to educate your child, that is where its responsibility ends. I get the impression more and more that some (not all) working parents expects the rest of the world to revolve around them.

Late to the thread but DD's school has always finished at 2.00pm at half term and noon at end of term. DS's school takes some beating though; last day of year finishes at 1030!! They go in, have a shared breakfast then bugger off! Thank goodness they are both at senior school so I'm beyond needing childcare.

No it is not OK. Havent RTFT - someone else may have pointed this out - schools that do this are almost certainly breaking the law uless they have provided the lost half day session some other time.

Extract from DfE publication "School attendance - Departmental advice for maintained schools, academies, independent schools and local authorities - November 2013":

School Year
Schools must meet for at least 380 sessions or 190 days during any school year to educate their pupils. If a school is prevented from meeting for one or more sessions because of an unavoidable event, it should find a practical way of holding extra sessions. If it cannot find a practical way of doing this then it is not required to make up the lost sessions.

If schools want to reduce the number of days they have to meet, they can make an application to the Secretary of State asking for a temporary exemption from the requirements of the legislation using the power to innovate.

Meh. Ds's school does this, they finish at 12 at Christmas and summer. My school did the same and I'm 33.

It's inconvenient for some but tbh that's kind of tough luck? Like others have said this isn't unpaid childcare.

But if the school is open for afternoon registration then it is technically not missing a session, just as when, if you collect your child after afternoon registration, they have not missed a session either.

You'd really struggle to justify that as a 'session' but some schools think they're being clever by keeping children until afternoon registration. Schools get away with it because it is so widespread, but if enough parents challenge it then schools do stop doing it.

I know a secondary school that had at least 8 half days like this (in addition to inset days), every time there was a production, parents' evening, sports day, end of term, you name it, it was absolutely taking the p*ss. A group of parents made a formal complaint and lo and behold it all stopped.

Dept for Education & Schools: All schools in England are free to decide when their school day should start and end. There are no specific legal requirements about how long the school day should be. Governing bodies of all maintained schools in England are responsible for deciding when sessions should begin and end on each school day. Governing bodies are also responsible for deciding the length of each lesson and the timings for the morning session, the midday break, and the afternoon session.

So this would cover the fact that schools can vary by 5-10 minutes each day, and can therefore make up the difference at the end of term.

Not the norm round our way [as far as I know].
I don't think it is on at all and straight after registration well cheeky.
School is not childcare argument just a bit boring now and wheeled out constantly and rather self righteously.

Don't be such a misery. Its standard here - xmas and summer end of term days.

You've said that you are freelance anyway, and the child will be home for 6 bloody weeks!

I love the last day of summer term, saying goodbye to the year 6 kids and heading home for ice cream and celebrating the real start of summer for kids.

Stop moaning!

And as a separate issue, if they were there for the afternoon, what do you think they would be doing? Watching a video probably. Nothing very useful or educational anyway. So the only reason to keep them there is for the convenience of the parents.

Funny how on one hand people are cross that they cannot take their kids out of school for holidays willy nilly now, but at the same time are cross when they are given a couple of extra days. On one hand they claim their children are being denied education (sounds like convenient childcare to me) but they want to deny their children schooling to take them out for term time holidays etc.

The bottom line that some parents seem to consisder is their own convenience. They want the school to provide education and offer extra curricular actitvities and wrap around care, but want to be able to choose when to access it and when not to.

So really there are several issues which have arisen in this thread, and they have all got muddled up;

• whether schools are allowed to finish after pm reg and if this is denying kids the education they are entitled to.
• school ending times and the difficulties of working parents
• schools doing activities in the school day, that working parents cannot get to.

As far as I can see, these are 3 separate issues.

• Schools have some flexibility over the length of the school day and can and do choose to finish at lunchtime sometimes at the end of term (giving plenty of notice)
• The nature of the school day being arranged to suit the length of time children can concentrate for,mr exults in an end time which does not fit easily with most people's working hours and so they need to arrange childcare.
• schools operate a school day which works for children to concentrate and learn and parents can optionally attend some of those actitvities. Not surprisingly, working parents find it less easy to attend than those not working.

Schools have the task of educating childrn for X amount of hours. They do this.
Parents are responsible for their children or arranging for someone else to be responsible for them, the rest of the time. It isn't easy, but it is not the schools responsibility.

My school (secondary) doesn't finish early and I think that's the right decision. Either school is important and students must attend or it's not. We shouldn't be able to pick and choose! As a teacher and parent the phrase, 'school's not child care' gives me the rage. We are caring for children- often when parents are at work and so in the absence of free/affordable child elsewhere then yes, schools are the child care. We can't have it both ways - encouraging parents to work but at the same time expect them to be able to drop everything when school decides to finish early. Rant over!

Schools' primary role is to educate children. It's the parents' role to care for them beyond that.
No one's expecting people to "drop everything." But really, is it such a surprise to people, when their child starts school, that there will still be occasional times when parents are required to organise additional cover?