They all catch up

[Enb76]

Should they all catch up?

Say you have a child who at the end of reception is able to do all that is expected of a Y1 and quite a lot of Y2. They can read, do the maths etc... I often hear the phrase "they all catch up" but surely if the child is quite far ahead then in order for the other cohort to catch up, the child that's ahead can't be being given the same amount of effort that's going into a child that's struggling, otherwise they would stay ahead. Is my logic wrong?

Do schools let the ones who are doing ok coast in order to let the rest of the class catch up and how or even should you challenge that to ensure that a bright child is challenged to the same degree as their less able counterparts?

The problem that primary schools have is that they can go no higher than L6 (whilst they still have levels!)

DD who finished v high (in reading/literacy at end of reception & now in yr1) is catered for fine and actually pushed pretty well but HT has admitted that they have concerns about KS2 & catering for DD but will do their best.

Sorry simpson but there is no ceiling to the level that can be achieved in primary.

OP research shows that early accademic success isn't a reliable indicator of future achievement

Mrz - but the fact that the school doesn't have anybody who can teach higher than L6 will mean that a child cannot go higher.

Having said that DD is only 6 so not worrying about it yet

Why can't they teach beyond L6?

What sort of a school are you in where a teacher can't teach beyond level 6!

I taught a boy level 7 maths in year 5, no-one told me I wasn't meant to go above level 6

We have the three tier system round here, so they always have to teach over level 6 at Middle School.

I guess because they are primary teachers & not secondary.

Only 2 teachers can teach L6 in maths & 1 teacher for reading/literacy so L6 stuff is done as pull out lessons.

Having said that the school did have a L7 kid last year (just remembered) so it can be done.

A child who is 'good' at maths but not 'gifted' may at some point find their 'struggling point' and others catch up, especially if they have coasted before that and not learnt how to work hard

Agree with this concept...children who are 'good' at things will usually plateau at some point.

I was 'good' at maths at school. I was top sets all the way through, and got A* at GCSE with very little hard work. I did A Level Maths...and it was beyond me. GCSE was my highest point iyswim. I did scrape a C Grade (just) but really, really struggled with some of the concepts.

As opposed to ds1, who isn't 'good' at maths, he is gifted, and I'm pretty sure he won't be caught up. It's down to the school, some are very good with those that are high-achieving in one or more areas, some not so good. Ds's school have a fantastic system in place where children can join older classes for certain lessons, which seems to be working really well.

simpson QTS qualifies teachers to teach in any key stage

All teachers must have a minimum of GCSE in Maths and English, so how they can be unable to teach level 6 escapes me!

I wonder how it works in Scotland. DS (7) who is in Primary 3 is doing 1-2-1 maths work once a week with a different teacher and has been doing Primary 5/6 maths this year. I dont know what they will do in later primary years when he has finished what they normally teach in Primary 7.

Presumably whatever comes next!

Yes but whatever comes next would be taught at secondary school which is in a different place to the primary school with different teachers.

But the content is still the same, whether taught by a primary teacher or a secondary. I have "primary" books in my cupboard along with "secondary" ones, they are simply a resource to use as appropriate. For some children the primary content is more appropriate, for some they need the secondary. If a book says Year 3 on the front, it isn't just used for children in a year 3 class but for children working at that level regardless of the actual label on the classroom door! Same with primary/secondary.

will the school itself have the resource there though if they are a primary school and he may be doing secondary level work? I dont know how it works

I think it depends.

Some DC are extremely able and will remain so. Other DC won't generally catch up.

However, some DC are quick starters in terms of attainment
but their inherent ability is no more great than others around them, who will catch up.

For example, there was a little boy in DS class who was already a year above where he should be, yet still found all the work absurdly easy. He played several instruments to an incredible standard and recalled his sheet music after one or two practices.

He is a gifted child in the traditional sense and will aways be an outlier in terms of both ability and attainment.

Then again, there were a couple of September birthday boys in DD's class who were way ahead in reception and right up to year three. However, they were just very bright, not outliers, and several other members of the class did catch them up...even the ones that didn't quite match their attainment, certainly narrowed the gap.

ilovepowerhoop it's the duty of the school to ensure they do have resources.

oh mrz how much I wish DD had been at your school. She was reading at a yr5 level in infants, but they had no resources and no intention of finding any. And that's why quite often the other children do catch up, because the really ahead child might not get taught for years.

I teach Y3 and have a little boy who's nearly mastered the whole of the KS3 programme of study for maths. I have taught it to him despite 'only' teaching in a primary school. Will he be caught or not? Not any time soon, I would suggest. But it will also depend on his interests and what he wants to spend time doing.

Of course primary schools can and should teach whatever content is most suitable for the children in their class.
in the same way that secondary school maths teachers don't just teach 'year seven' content to pupils working at level 2 in maths because that's for primary schools!

At DD's nursery, if they aren't sure of the next step for a 4 year old, the call the local primary school and discuss it with the reception teachers.

Secondary schools often send link teachers out to local primaries and I would expect any primary teacher out of their depth in a subject (possibly maths) to be able to call the head of maths or KS3 leader of maths in their local secondary for advice and resources. That's if their own maths coordinator wasn't able to help. Teachers work very collaboratively.

Well from my very narrow experience of 1 primary school from yr r to yr 6, on the whole the ones on top table in yr 1 are still there in yr 6. Not all of them, and 3 or 4 bright ones left to go private in yrs 2 and 3 ( always seems to happen at the dcs state primary), leaving spaces that were filled by others, in a one class entry school a few leaving makes a big difference, though it does give more teacher time to those who remain. On the whole the reaching of reading and writing has stretched even the brightest in the year. But the teaching of maths leaves a lot to be desired and the top table have been stuck repeating things and getting extremely bored since yr 4 when they finished the level 5 primary curriculum. Sadly there are no mathematicians amongst the teachers, they have sent the top table to a local secondary for a class a week this academic year, which lets them access level 6, but an hour a week isn't much, and it takes a whole morning to get them to secondary and back as we are rural and it's a long way to secondary school.

prettydaisies: I think you are a great teacher to teach one boy in your Y3 class the whole KS3 maths, while teaching others. How do you manage that?

They definitely don't all catch up, some children sadly leave school unable to read. They haven't caught up.