They all catch up

[Enb76]

Should they all catch up?

Say you have a child who at the end of reception is able to do all that is expected of a Y1 and quite a lot of Y2. They can read, do the maths etc... I often hear the phrase "they all catch up" but surely if the child is quite far ahead then in order for the other cohort to catch up, the child that's ahead can't be being given the same amount of effort that's going into a child that's struggling, otherwise they would stay ahead. Is my logic wrong?

Do schools let the ones who are doing ok coast in order to let the rest of the class catch up and how or even should you challenge that to ensure that a bright child is challenged to the same degree as their less able counterparts?

[ZanyMobster]

IME it really depends.

DS2 seemed quite behind in YR with reading in particular, this year (Y1) he is now a similar level to the child who was top in everything in YR (won the academic award etc) and in fact ahead of him in Maths. There are other children that have overtaken him in all areas.

On the other hand there was a group of 5 children at DS1s infant school who were miles ahead of the others and were put up a year. 3 out of that 5 are still quite a way ahead of their (different) classes in Y3 but the other two are not even top sets now. With DS1 I have never felt that he will even out and so far he hasn't and has still progressed at a quite rate, he has such a determination at the moment and works very hard - ask me again at secondary school though!!

So the answer is yes or no

[MrsWinnibago]

My DD entered her school at the start of year 3 and was very much behind in everything. Now in year 5 she's top of the group in literacy and above average in maths.

Fantastic school with amazing teachers.

[mrz]

and demotivates the children on lower tables herdream?

[herdream1]

I think one of the reasons why top-table children are likely to achieve is: when a child is ahead of others at the early stage, that gives him/her confidence and motivation to keep working hard to stay there while they grow up.

[bronya]

In my experience, the more able progress at a slightly slower rate than they naturally would, throughout primary. So they still make their sub-levels of progress the same way as the rest of the class, but they could make more, based on their progress so far (i.e. if 2 sub-levels a year is normal, the more able could make three, but the resources aren't there to support that). It doesn't stop them getting As in GCSEs/A levels though.

[Jinsei]

In some cases, other kids will catch up, and in some cases the gap will widen. I don't think it's possible to generalise.

[Lara2]

They don't all catch up children who get a 2C in maths in Year 2 are unlikely to get a C - A grade at GCSE.

[ChocolateWombat]

The idea that all children catch up to the same level is ridiculous.
If you look at the statistics, those who are ahead at the end of the EYFS are likely to be ahead at the end of KS1, Ks2, KS3, GCSE......
That is not to say that there are not some that slip behind the curve, or who do better than early progress would suggest, but of course they are not the norm.
So being ahead now, is a good indication of future success, if not something that is set is stone.

[Taz1212]

ilovepowerhoop Your DC should be just fine. Scotland measures by levels and as you approach secondary school, most pupils will be finishing up level 2 with the expectation that they will start level 3 in S1. However, some pupils will be working at level 3 earlier (and some later) and the school should be able to handle this. DS has been working at level 3 in some areas since the middle of P6 and both his old school and his new school have tailored the curriculum accordingly.

[mrz]

just as strugglers who are always sent off to work outside the classroom or have a TA constantly attached never learn

[nonicknameseemsavailable]

a bright child who is completely unchallenged could well develop a poor work ethic. they never learn to work for anything or learn about failure.

[mrz]

It's one of the three prime areas of learning unrealhousewife - along with speaking & listening and physical development

[unrealhousewife]

Wow, they can measure work ethic in foundation stage?

[mrz]

Jinty that "work ethic" you describe is seen as the most important factor in future success - in EYFS it comes under Dispositions and Attitudes to learning ... well done your DS2

[Jinty64]

Ds1 started school able to read and write (self taught). He had a huge vocabulary and was clearly pretty bright. I was told by his nursery that "he would have no problems in school". He spent most of P1 staring out the window, causing low level disruption and generally doing as little as possible. When I suggested their might be a problem I was told he was in all the top groups, there was nothing wrong with him but that if I tried disciplining him at home he might behave better in school. He was eventually diagnosed with ADHD and remained in the top groups throughout primary with very little effort.

Ds2 (23 months younger) had a speech delay and barely spoke when he started school. He took a long time to learn to read and I spent time every evening working with him so he would keep up with the bottom group. By the time he finished primary he was doing quite well at most subjects.

Their standard grade results were almost identical and it looks as if ds2 is going to do better in his highers (awaiting results) than ds1 did because ds2 has always had to work hard for everything and has a good work ethic. So the slow ones can catch up and even overtake.

[SueDNim]

They definitely don't all catch up, some children sadly leave school unable to read. They haven't caught up.

[herdream1]

prettydaisies: I think you are a great teacher to teach one boy in your Y3 class the whole KS3 maths, while teaching others. How do you manage that?

[MilkRunningOutAgain]

Well from my very narrow experience of 1 primary school from yr r to yr 6, on the whole the ones on top table in yr 1 are still there in yr 6. Not all of them, and 3 or 4 bright ones left to go private in yrs 2 and 3 ( always seems to happen at the dcs state primary), leaving spaces that were filled by others, in a one class entry school a few leaving makes a big difference, though it does give more teacher time to those who remain. On the whole the reaching of reading and writing has stretched even the brightest in the year. But the teaching of maths leaves a lot to be desired and the top table have been stuck repeating things and getting extremely bored since yr 4 when they finished the level 5 primary curriculum. Sadly there are no mathematicians amongst the teachers, they have sent the top table to a local secondary for a class a week this academic year, which lets them access level 6, but an hour a week isn't much, and it takes a whole morning to get them to secondary and back as we are rural and it's a long way to secondary school.

[SueDNim]

At DD's nursery, if they aren't sure of the next step for a 4 year old, the call the local primary school and discuss it with the reception teachers.

Secondary schools often send link teachers out to local primaries and I would expect any primary teacher out of their depth in a subject (possibly maths) to be able to call the head of maths or KS3 leader of maths in their local secondary for advice and resources. That's if their own maths coordinator wasn't able to help. Teachers work very collaboratively.

[TheEnchantedForest]

Of course primary schools can and should teach whatever content is most suitable for the children in their class.
in the same way that secondary school maths teachers don't just teach 'year seven' content to pupils working at level 2 in maths because that's for primary schools!

[prettydaisies]

I teach Y3 and have a little boy who's nearly mastered the whole of the KS3 programme of study for maths. I have taught it to him despite 'only' teaching in a primary school. Will he be caught or not? Not any time soon, I would suggest. But it will also depend on his interests and what he wants to spend time doing.

[tenderbuttons]

oh mrz how much I wish DD had been at your school. She was reading at a yr5 level in infants, but they had no resources and no intention of finding any. And that's why quite often the other children do catch up, because the really ahead child might not get taught for years.

[mrz]

ilovepowerhoop it's the duty of the school to ensure they do have resources.

[TheWordFactory]

I think it depends.

Some DC are extremely able and will remain so. Other DC won't generally catch up.

However, some DC are quick starters in terms of attainment
but their inherent ability is no more great than others around them, who will catch up.

For example, there was a little boy in DS class who was already a year above where he should be, yet still found all the work absurdly easy. He played several instruments to an incredible standard and recalled his sheet music after one or two practices.

He is a gifted child in the traditional sense and will aways be an outlier in terms of both ability and attainment.

Then again, there were a couple of September birthday boys in DD's class who were way ahead in reception and right up to year three. However, they were just very bright, not outliers, and several other members of the class did catch them up...even the ones that didn't quite match their attainment, certainly narrowed the gap.

[ilovepowerhoop]

will the school itself have the resource there though if they are a primary school and he may be doing secondary level work? I dont know how it works