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Primary education

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Original poster

School refuses a viewing visit

53 replies

jaabaar · 16/05/2014 13:40

A faith school has refused to let me view their school.

I do understand that open days were arranged last year etc.
However this school has released further available spaces for the interest round and this school can be added as a new interest on the original list.

Can they refuse a viewing taking into consideration they are offering additional places and can be added as a new school on preference list?

The reason they gave me is that if they agreed they had parents here every day.

Thank you

OP posts:

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Forgettable · 16/05/2014 13:41

Well to be fair tis SATS season atm

Original poster

jaabaar · 16/05/2014 14:35

The school has to be added if I want it by 23 may.
Another school I went to view last week was very welcoming.

I find it difficult to choose a school without viewing.
The school didn't say it is due to exams. They said if they agree they would have parents there every day.
But with above circumstances they should consider maybe for a few days.

I didn't get any of my four choices and therefore adding this new school with available spaces.

OP posts:

SapphireMoon · 16/05/2014 14:40

I would not be impressed by this schools attitude.

meditrina · 16/05/2014 14:53

Did the school chose to expand, or are they being forced to by the LEA?

If the latter, I would hope that would still apply their usual professional standards once they have actually assimilated what they are required to do and have adjusted all their planning.

I can see that they cannot accommodate individual tours, and setting on an open day on a week's notice right on top of SATS is no small matter either.

OP: if you have no place at all at the moment, how realistic is it that you will actually get a choice? Is this your nearest school? Do you meet the faith requirements, or is it VC?

HouseofEliot · 16/05/2014 14:53

My childrens school doesn't do visits. I asked before we applied and they said they don't ever do them. It's a great school that is very oversubscribed this year 270 applications for 60 places.

MarathonFan · 16/05/2014 15:10

The SATs excuse is rubbish. Maybe they wouldn't want visits this week, but if OP has been turned away flat, that's not the reason.

Personally I don't think I could send a child to a school that viewed parents as a nuisance in this way but unfortunately successful schools (heads) can start to believe their own PR and think that they are more important than the children & parents - the customers without which there woudln't be a school. If they're full without offering visits then I guess there's not real reason why they should put themselves out.

admission · 16/05/2014 18:05

If they do not want to extend a welcome visit then I am afraid I would not be considering them worthy of a visit.

KellyHopter · 16/05/2014 18:08

Did you request a specific date?

rabbitstew · 16/05/2014 19:27

Would the headteacher buy a house without viewing it first? Is his house more important than your child's education? Would a parent considering a private school consider sending their child there without looking around it, first? If the school had advertised for a new teacher, would they refuse possible applicants the opportunity to be shown around the school, first?

My reaction to a refusal to show a prospective parent round a school that has just advertised it has more spaces is that it is run by an arrogant tosser. The only other possible reason for refusing is that he can't organise a piss up in a brewery, but if his school is that popular, the former is probably more accurate. Popularity is not the same thing as perfection, nor does it mean your child will be happy there. It's not as if you are asking to look around a school that doesn't have spare places to fill.

Original poster

jaabaar · 16/05/2014 21:17

I didn't ask for a specific date. It had to be though between now and the 23rd. However I didn't get that far as I was cut short very strongly.
I am getting a strong feeling to not add this school as every time I have been in touch with them (handing in priest ref and additional form) they were always quite unfriendly and they seemed annoyed all the time.
Not nice first, second and third impressions.

Rabbit stew
That is my point. I would understand this un inviting approach anytime during the year. But not when they announced new spaces.
You have to see the school to get a feel if your child would fit and be happy. That can be a good school and not necessarily an outstanding oversubscribed school.

At least communication even if refusal should at least be friendly......

OP posts:

mumontheroad · 16/05/2014 21:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

pyrrah · 16/05/2014 23:19

IMO, looking round schools is possibly THE most important thing you can do. All very well reading the Outstanding Ofsted and admiring the straight run of L5s, but what you see going round a school doesn't always match up.

When I was doing the rounds, I saw 4 Outstanding schools and there was a gulf between the one I rated top and the one I rated bottom. I ended up with a 'Needs Improvement' as my 3rd choice.

If they're not prepared to show a parent round, then how do they deal with parents later on. Are parents evenings seen as a total PITA or a chance for mutual feedback and discussion? How does the HT deal with SEN or children with behavioural problems?

Sounds to me as if the school is so oversubscribed that the HT is resting on their laurels.

I'd avoid.

temporarilyjerry · 17/05/2014 09:06

I agree with pp. Their attitude to this tells you all you need to know.

Twodownonetogo · 17/05/2014 09:27

This is quite often the case that schools refuse visits for exactly the reason they gave, that they would have parents traipsing through the school at all times.
It is difficult when choosing a school not to be able to look around. But it also difficult to just dismiss a school for this reason as it is hard to get into a decent state school. There must be a reason for you to have this school on your list. Do you know any of the parents whose children attend this school who could give you any insight?

Original poster

jaabaar · 17/05/2014 13:45

Twodownonetogo
I added this school as it is the only other catholic school available. It is not an outstanding school however I chose it for the religious education.

I understand that they cannot have constantly parents coming around. However if they are organised they could arrange just for one day only for one hour. Then they would not have parents every day.

I am strongly thinking of not adding this school. I had 4 times contact with them. Face to face and by phone. Always very unfriendly, each time.

OP posts:

teacherwith2kids · 17/05/2014 14:00

I requested a visit to a locasl grammar school for DD. As a teacher, i cannot attend normal 'open days', and I was lucky enough to have a different half term to the gramnmnar school at that particular poit.

I asked whether I could visit the school on any of those 5 days, at their convenience.

I was told it was not possible. i explained the reason. I was told it was impossioble. I explained that all the other schools I was considering - including a much more over-subscribed grammar, and a highly over-subscribed local comp (who gave me a very extensive individuial tour with a deputy head because i couldn't do the standard times) - had accommodated my request.

they said that they did not run tours during normal days, only for pre-arranged open days, and were remarkably rude. I am afraid that in the end I asked what they were afraid I might see on a normal day. There was rather a long silence.

They didn't make it onto DD;'s preference form, funnily enough.

MrsCakesPremonition · 17/05/2014 14:16

If they have been off with you have every time you've been in touch, then it is safe to assume that they are going to continue to be unfriendly and unhelpful in future.
Give them a very wide berth.

MushroomSoup · 17/05/2014 16:37

I'm a primary head of a busy, successful and growing school. I personally (wherever possible) show parents round at any time they can manage. I see it as a crucial part of my role and maybe this is why we're oversubscribed!

HolidayCriminal · 17/05/2014 16:52

It is a bad sign imho. Could mean lots of things, none of them good in my mind.
I'm thinking I would go stand in the school yard before start time & home-time & approach every reasonable-looking person waiting there to ask them about their experience of the school & whether they would recommend it; explain your predicament why you can't get in to see the place, and see if the actual parents find that typical or want to endorse the school nonetheless.

breakfastnotattiffanys · 17/05/2014 19:11

Whilst we try to arrange open days to suit as many people as possible (one open morning and one open afternoon) we are always happy to arrange a suitably convenient appt for any parents that cant make the specified ones. Any school that cant accomodate this kind of arrangement, in my opinion, especially a faith school is not giving parents a very good impression. I certainly wouldn't choose such an unwelcoming institution!

MarathonFan · 17/05/2014 20:10

Our head insists on seeing every prospective parent before they're offered a place. He (and sometime they) knows he can't actually refuse a place if they refuse to meet him but he leads them to believe it's part of the admissions process. He feels it's important that the parents understand the school and that the school understand the parents and child before a place is offered.

He is also very good at persuading "unsuitable" parents that their child would be better off elsewhere which is I'm afraid a large part of why the school has gone from unsatisfactory to good in the 4 years he's been here. Lots of work has been done to improve the children's experiences in school too but you can't get away from the fact that a large part of the difference between a "good" and a "poor" school is the quality of the parents.

SatansFurryJamHats · 17/05/2014 20:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 17/05/2014 20:30

That is horrendous MarathonFan and I'd be avoiding that school as much as the one in the OP. It doesn't say much about his skills as a HT if that's the method he's chosen to improve the school.

upsondowns · 17/05/2014 20:43

When we moved counties there was a very limited time we could view the nearest school. I called to explain and they simply wouldn't accommodate it.
We did later end up putting our dc there as it was the local village school with an apparently good reputation but ultimately it ended up being a huge mistake.
The management team were awful and the whole experience made me wish I had trusted my initial instincts which were that they were a bit off-hand and not very friendly. Ultimately they were a whole lot worse than I had ever expected .
The relationship ended with threats made against me for raising some serious failures involving safety and if I was in that situation again I would trust my first impressions.

MarathonFan · 17/05/2014 20:45

LOL Rafa, it's what practically every "good" school does - most manage to do it by being the catchment school in a affluent/MC area. You know the kind of school "nice" parents move house to get their kids into.

He has managed to turn around a school in an area with with very high FSM. We still have very high levels of statemented children and much higher than average FSM - we have fewer children from families who won't work with the school.

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