Reading books and phonics

[slev]

Looking for some help please!

DS has just started bringing books home for reading practice (he's in Kindergarten so only just learning to blend letters). Yesterday's was all consonant-vowel-consonant words, very regular and easy to help him sound them out. But today's has jumped to include words like "sandwiches", "cakes" and "basket" (we're in the south so to me that's phonetically irregular as we'd have a long a!).

So he obviously can't read it on his own, but I have no idea how to help him with our without undoing whatever he may have learnt at school. Will speak to his teacher on Tuesday, but any tips on the meantime? Do I get him to guess the words based on recognising the first letter and the pictures? Or do I just teach him the word and ignore the phonics but accept he's unlikely to remember any of it tomorrow if he sees the word out of context?

Can't help feeling we need a lesson for the parents first - and this is Kindergarten, it's only going to get worse!

But it isn't a counter-balance. If he had an evidence or experience based counter argument, I'd probably be inclined to agree with him. But he doesn't. It's all hot air. He knows most of the stuff he is saying about what 'phonics enthusiasts' are teaching or saying is wrong. It's been discussed with him on many occasions and his errors pointed out. But he refuses to even consider the other point of view, or go and see what actually is being taught as opposed to what he think is being taught.

Phonics is not the only subject he does this on. It's just one of many across a broad spectrum.

In terms of early readers and enjoyment of literature, I'm not sure there's all that much difference between 'Oh Floppy' and 'Sid Did It'. Other than the latter being slightly more interesting to read.

Rafa - I know he is like this on other subjects - he and I had a 'falling out' online over another subject :) However my DS had the good luck to attend a class on poetry-writing for children that MR taught and I have to say that he is a super teacher (and really great with kids). I think a pro-literature approach is what is missing from today's schools. Just telling the kids to read for the sake of enjoyment, every day would be such a blessing. Even with all the modern 'science' behind reading/teaching techniques, UK kids still lag massively behind other European kids in both literacy and numeracy so it is very clear that something isn't working.

Rafa - Sid Did It was the first book he brought home - that one we managed fine!

Anyway, just as a final update for anyone still interested - spoke to the teacher, her view was that all the books he's bringing home are of the same banding, therefore that one was just a weird one in terms of some of the words and just to sound out any like that in the future, even if they weren't phonetically regular (or possibly phonemes he hasn't come across yet). Yesterday's was more straightforward so I'll think we'll treat The Picnic as a bit of a blip and just plod on as we were - DS is really enjoying reading his "learning books" as he calls them, so that's the main thing.

Sid Dis is Phonics Bug - there are some electronic phonics bug books in MN learning

However my DS had the good luck to attend a class on poetry-writing for children that MR taught and I have to say that he is a super teacher (and really great with kids).

That is really nice to hear. However, teaching poetry writing is not teaching reading. MR should stick to what he knows and does best. We'll teach the children to read with confidence and enjoyment and he will get lots more customers for his lovely books.

I think a pro-literature approach is what is missing from today's schools.

I think a 'pro literature' approach has been missing from many of our schools for a great many years...

Coming in and delivering a poetry writing activity isn't "teaching" ... it really isn't that simple or children would need one afternoon for everything they need to learn and education would be complete inside the year.

I actually think many primary schools have been pro literature (although the trend in secondary was to read extracts rather than full texts).
My school has always taught phonics and always taught through high quality whole texts. It's another of Mr Rosen's myths that the two don't happily support each other.

Of course it was teaching! He went through his own processes in thinking through and writing a poem and discussed various ways that the children could construct theirs. It was a three hour session and by the end even the non-writers had produced something of worth (parents acted as scribes). He inspired, instructed, scaffolded and encouraged. To me, that is what teaching is. He is was really great and every child in the room was engaged and attentive - even my own son who doesn't like group activities.

mrz - I appreciate that you like to think that your word on educational matters is final but others are entitled to do things in other ways and find them successful and engaging. For my son, who could read Roald Dahl etc before reception and who has never had a spelling lesson in his life (but yet is an excellent speller) all those phonics lessons were just super dull - one of the reasons I removed him from state education. I am sure what you do is great but no one system of education suits everyone.

But children like your son are a small percentage of the children in any school. We can't really go 'screw the children, it doesn't really matter if they don't learn to read and write' just because a small number of children can already read when they start reception. It's usually 15-20 minutes a day out of a 5.5hr day taught alongside the rest of a language rich literacy curriculum, with children being exposed to a wide variety of literature and literacy activities.

Rosen does some really good things is schools and with children. I cannot fault him for that in any way. He is very, very good at it. And there are things I do agree with him on. But he is mistaken on this and has continually shown over the past few years that his either unable or unwilling to grasp the basic concepts of phonics teaching that people are arguing with him over. This wouldn't matter if he was 'Dave the plumber' from down the road, but his views on this are given much more importance than they perhaps should be just because he is Michael Rosen.

No I agree that my son is unusual - he is prob on the autistic spectrum so v good at certain academic skills, less so at others. I have used phonics at lot more with more other son who is reading at level 5 on ORT and would be due to start reception in Sept. He is neurotypical and therefore I have had to teach him a lot more via phonics - I realise this. All I am really trying to say is that the 'one approach fits all' system can be dangerous as no educational system suits all children equally.

Re Michael Rosen, I think he is arguing for reading for pleasure over reading as a system. I am a secondary school teacher so I have never been trained in teaching children to read (although I work as a tutor with some younger children) and I do know that in secondary school, texts are used as a way of 'teaching' children about language, structure etc. I believe passionately in a culture where books are plentiful and writers are respected. My little son has been sitting reading Diary of A wimpy Kid. He can't read it properly at all but he is desperate to read it so sits every day trying to work out the words. If you read autobiographies of great writers, many taught themselves to read dense texts just because they were so keen to know the mysteries of the written word. Phonics is effective because it is the lowest common denominator, for sure, but schools focus so much on literacy that they are killing literature. I think that is what M.R is trying to say. I think there is truth on both sides.

My son is autistic and hyperlexic bauhausfan - and was disadvantaged by not having been taught phonics which is why I feel so strongly about people like Mr Rosen who spout nonsense with no basis in fact.

Mr Rosen doesn't seem to realise that in order to read for pleasure you first need to be able to read and for the majority of children that isn't achieved by osmosis.