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year 1 phonics check

575 replies

SmileAndNod · 19/03/2014 19:59

Does anyone know if this is done in the summer term, or is there no set time for it? Also what exactly is it they check? That they can decode a word rather than read? It was mentioned at the start of the year but nothing since!
Thank you

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columngollum · 27/03/2014 10:38

I guess that's a moot point. According to that a doesn't sound like ay and I doesn't sound like eye, but ih.

I also think that possibly, (if I might be allowed to invent an adjective) the mongrality of English is loved so greatly by many is because it aptly reflects the history of Britain and its empire.

Mashabell · 27/03/2014 10:43

LittleMissGreen
the use of onely. I cannot read that as only, I read it as one-ly
I can understand why: 'one' is such a common word, its horrid spelling has addled your brain.
But 'only' was often spelt 'onely' in the past. And 'one' as 'wun' or 'un'.

and I doubt I would ever remember the change of spelling unless consciously thinking about it as 'one-ly'.

U would not have to. U could let your computer do it for u. In other countries older people have carried on spelling as before.
In England too, people spelt in lots of different ways until roughly 1700 and it caused no major problems.

Back to 'only': I would make it ownly - at least that uses the 'right' phonetic ow sound.
But 'ow' has no right sound. It has two: blown down, how slow....
Chaucer spelt more sensibly, e.g. blone doun.

I am sure that u, like so many people who have never given reform any really serious thought, imagine that it would have to be humongous - because u know that there is much wrong with English spelling.

Reforms in other countries (except Turkey in 1929) changed just a few things at a time, after quite lengthy deliberations, and always with the aim of making to write easier.

English spelling has the additional problem of phonic inconsistencies (so - do), and it would probably be most worthwhile to concentrate on ameliorating those to start with.

Mashabell · 27/03/2014 10:46

bruffin: "u" doesnt even sound like "you" anyway.

The letters a, e, i, o, u and y all hav at least 2 sounds:
up, unter, utter - use, universal, units.

columngollum · 27/03/2014 10:48

It's getting away from the phonic consistency argument. But the initial argument would have to be:

do we want to do away with the phonic inconsistencies?

I think many people actually want the phonic inconsistencies to remain in English precisely because they tell the English so much about who they are!

LittleMissGreen · 27/03/2014 10:51

I am sure that u, like so many people who have never given reform any really serious thought, imagine that it would have to be humongous - because u know that there is much wrong with English spelling.
Actually I have never given spelling reform any serious thought because I have never had an issue with spelling Grin. I work on the 'if it isn't broken, don't fix it' attitude. I do feel there are issues with the look and say method of teaching reading/spelling, but not with teaching phonics/spelling.

columngollum · 27/03/2014 10:53

If there are no issues with phonics/spelling, missgreen

then what are tricky words for?

Mashabell · 27/03/2014 10:53

columngollum: the mongrality of English is loved so greatly by many is because it aptly reflects the history of Britain and its empire.

I think it is mainly because they have no idea how English spelling has ended up as it is. I'll paste in my summary of the main causes again.

English spelling was mostly deliberately messed up.
Until 1430, when after nearly three centuries of Norman rule English became the official language of England again, English spelling was as consistent as other European orthographies, apart from the use of 'o' for 'u' next to 'm, n' and 'v' which had been adopted by monastic scribes as early as the 9th C, because they did not like having lots of short strokes next to each other (e.g. munth).

Around 1430, official scribes (or Chancery clerks) were obliged to switch from French and Latin to the previously despised, lowly English. It may have been because they were angry about this that they destroyed much of the earlier English spelling consistency.

They deliberately changed Chaucer's previously consistent spellings for long and short e (nere, here, speke, beleve, reson - frend, erly, lern). They deliberately not only made learning to spell English more difficult (bed head, send friend, but learning to read too (‘mean, meant’; ‘read now / read yesterday’.

The next blow to English spelling consistency was dealt by the arrival of printing in 1476.
Firstly, because the Belgian assistants who helped Caxton set up in business spoke no or little English.
Secondly, because early printers were paid by the line, and therefore liked to make words longer: olde, worlde, shoppe, hadde, fissche ... .
Thirdly, because the most bought early English book, Tyndale's 1526 translation of the New Testament, was first published in Belgium and typeset by people who spoke no English. - Because in England the printing of English bibles was illegal until 1539.

The pamphleteers of the English Civil War (1642-9) wanted to squeeze the maximum of information onto a single page dropped most of the earlier deliberately inserted surplus letters again (old, had, shop). But many SURPLUS letters (especially '-e' endings) are still in use today (arE, havE, imaginE, promisE, delicatE) and the useful vowel-lenghtening role of '-e' (care, save, define, surprise, inflate).

Sam Johnson's dictionary of 1755 dealt the last major blow to English spelling consistency. He virtually destroyed the English short and long vowel spelling system, as in 'bit – bite – bitten' because of his reverence for ancient Greek and Latin. - He removed doubled letters from many words of Latin origin which earlier had been spelt with English rules (e.g. Lattine, pittie, cittie, verray...) and inserted them where they serve no phonic purpose (arrive, account, afford...) - to indicate defunct Latin prefixes. It is mainly to him that we owe the hundreds of illogical doubling inconsistencies like 'rabbit – habit, ballad – salad, poppy – copy'.

The very worst of all English spelling difficulties, the totally needless use of heterographs, such as 'its/it's', 'there/their', was also standardised mainly by Johnson. Earlier those words simply had different spellings, used variably by different writers. It was Johnson who linked them to different meanings and made learning to learn English much harder than need be (see englishspellingproblems.blogspot.co.uk ).

The identical sounds of words with different meanings never, ever cause the slightest difficulties in speech. In writing, thousands of English words with different meanings also get by perfectly well with just one spelling (bar, bear, found, sound, ground, mean, lean....). The 335 singled out for special treatment by Johnson do nothing but make learning to write gratuitously harder.
Masha Bell

LittleMissGreen · 27/03/2014 10:55

Collumn - I didn't say there were NO issues with spelling, I said I hadn't had issues with spelling. I still remember learning how to spell long 'useful' words at secondary school and therefore how they are spelt.

I am completely aware that other people do have issues with spelling - DS1 was one of them, DH is dyslexic etc. I have however seen that phonics/spelling teaching has improved DS1s spelling ability and therefore I personally see no reason to try and fix English spelling by a reform process.

LittleMissGreen · 27/03/2014 10:58

Ah, sorry, think I misunderstood your question.
I think phonics teaching can be used to teach spelling. Many of the words with tricky parts are only tricky until the child has learn the new phonic correspondence. For example DS3 was taught how to spell 'was' fairly early on in reception as a word with a tricky part. Now later on in reception he knows if he wants to spell a word with /w//o/ sounds at the beginning he needs to use 'wa', so it is no longer a tricky part.

columngollum · 27/03/2014 11:02

OK, masha. But that's not what I'm saying.

Many English people love the latinisation of so many words because it tells us much about Roman influence. Of course Old French was equally as influenced and much was introduced on account of it and Latin's administrative uses.

But there is only, I think, a cultural reason for adopting words like bungalow, khukuri,
vindaloo and tipi unchanged into our language. And it has nothing to do with Stuart printers.

bruffin · 27/03/2014 11:04

So using a single letter that has two sounds is the way forward for spelling reform really Confused
Its a completely pointless exercise, thankfully it will not happen.. It does take a ridiculous amount of arrogance for a non native speaker to believe they can reform another countries language.

All children need is for adults to stop experimenting with their learning processes and use what is know to work ie phonics. We only have the phonics check because phonics isn't being taught properly in the first place. Even the latest technologies show that we are using phonics to read. MRI scans of the brain and eye tracking equipment show we are not recognising whole words but looking at individual letters simultaniously then putting the sounds together in a form we recognise as a word.

columngollum · 27/03/2014 11:05

Yes, missgreen. Trickiness can, in part, be relative to a child's knowledge.

But not all trickiness can be so easily explained away.

Once, one, eye, two, the, yacht, sword and many other English words will remain tricky no matter how much phonics gets learned. How are they to be explained?

columngollum · 27/03/2014 11:17

To speed things up, I'll give you the standard phonicsy response, which is that you can teach the child half of the word. So, in the case of yacht, all except the ct added to the t are regular.

But practically speaking this makes no sense because being able to read half a word is useless.

LittleMissGreen · 27/03/2014 11:24

Sorry, in work and had to actually do some!
Personally I would say (and I'm not a teacher) that of those words, if you only had to specifically teach once, one, two and the to a reception level child (I doubt much of their writing includes eye, yacht or sword) then it's a lot easier than teaching them every word from scratch. I do know that DS2 (taught through phonics) can spell once, one and the quite happily - he has had to spell them recently. He said yes I know that starts with an 'o' for one and once before I even reminded him there was a tricky part.

Mashabell · 27/03/2014 11:26

bruffin: It does take a ridiculous amount of arrogance for a non native speaker to believe they can reform another countries language.
I have lived in the UK and have been British for almost 50 years.
I am an advocat of modernising English spelling not the language.

Besides, the two biggest changes to the English language were made foreigners: Germans and Normans.

But leaving your insults aside, i am probably more aware than most of the learning difficulties which English spelling inconsistencies pose, because i studied 6 other languages as well - and because i took the trouble to analyse English spelling, and the reading and spelling difficulties which pupils have and to research its history.

Even the latest technologies show that we are using phonics to read. MRI scans of the brain and eye tracking equipment show we are not recognising whole words but looking at individual letters simultaniously.

'looking at individual letters simultaniously' is the same as 'looking at a whole word'.

maizieD · 27/03/2014 11:38

I always wonder how often beginning readers are required to read the word 'yacht' Hmm

It's actually been explained many, many times how we deal with words with unusual correspondences. If some folks are determined not to understand it that is their privilege.

I've just been reading a report of a longitudinal 'study' of children exclusively taught SP. No child left the school scoring less than 'average' on measures of reading and spelling (i.e where the greatest number of children scored, or above, when the tests were standardised) and most were in the above average to high range. No underachievement in any of the groups usually expected to have difficulties; SEN, EAL, low SES, pupil premium and EBD. Boys actually outperformed girls, which is exceptional when looking at national averages and the school's SATs results by far exceeded the national averages.

I don't think 'yacht' managed to disadvantage these children in any way; nor did the English spelling system.

maizieD · 27/03/2014 11:41

'looking at individual letters simultaniously' is the same as 'looking at a whole word'.

Hmm

Dehaene (Reading in the Brain) says that letters are processed serially; 'whole word' isn't about processing the letters in the word, it's about shapes and 'pictures'.

bruffin · 27/03/2014 11:43

"'looking at individual letters simultaniously' is the same as 'looking at a whole word'."

No it isnt!
There is a difference between recognising a word as a shape or picture which is what Look and Say and whole word theories attempt to do and our brain identifying all the components of the word

Housemum · 27/03/2014 12:20

It will be interesting to see how DD3 gets on with this - she will happily sound out the individual phonics letters/phonemes (is that the right word?) but struggles to hear the word when she blends them. She is a good reader more by luck, as she works out by inference what the word is she is trying to sound out - so seeing a word out of context, particularly if not a "real" word, will probably flummox her!

columngollum · 27/03/2014 13:27

been explained many, many times how we deal with words with unusual correspondences

there has been a succession of half-baked contradictions issued, which range from reading half the word to declaring that some words aren't words at all, yes.

But never has there been a common sense answer. The common sense answer is just as we all already know. Some words are phonetically irregular and it's no big deal. We just remember what those words are.

bruffin · 27/03/2014 13:45

it no more half baked than remembering a word as a picture.

what is the difference of remembering the various rules for "ough" than remembering that "ach" can make an "o" sound. or "on" can make a "wo" sound. It's not complicated at all.

columngollum · 27/03/2014 13:56

Well, yes, remembering a word as a picture is pretty daft. Who does that and how?

a, ch, ough, and all the rest of it, aren't the difficult ones: eye, cht, sw, one and various other peculiarities are the problem for a wholistic phonetic explanation. People who don't require any such explanation just agree that they're in our words. That's all there is to it.

maizieD · 27/03/2014 14:03

there has been a succession of half-baked contradictions issued, which range from reading half the word to declaring that some words aren't words at all, yes.

I think the only person who has said such stupid things as that is you, cg.

columngollum · 27/03/2014 14:07

I think you'll find that phonicsy people have got their knickers in such a twist that they now have to declare abbreviations are not words.

bruffin · 27/03/2014 14:25

"Well, yes, remembering a word as a picture is pretty daft. Who does that and how? "

For the umpteenth time methods other than phonics ie Look and Say