What age to start preparing dc for 11+ and how

[ThisSummerBetterBeDarnGood]

Are there bench marks, aides and so on.

Is there a target for instance that should be hit by a certain age at school or there is no point even trying sort of thing.

At what age would I know my DC is 11+ material.

How will I also know if my dd school is covering enough material to get her through it. she is sept born 6. in year 1.

Sorry Kip is Kip McGrath - they seem to do most of the tutoring around these parts. Not sure what they actually do with the younger ones.

In my idealist view I would like to think that children who are able should be able to pass the 11+ without heavy tutoring. Seems sadly that this isn't the case any more.

Oh yes ideals .

I think all children who are going for 11+ need to be in the same school then with the same teachers and all being favoured the same!

There is no way you can ever level it, children are being put in selective schools from age 4, open communication with the teachers on how they are doing and so on.

I think the only solution is to simply bring all secondary schools up to standard.

I also think, that with the 11+ every single point counts, you get two equally bright children but one may do better simply because he preped in exam situating a little more.

Anyway, I am dealing with the resources I have at hand now. Failing secondary schools are all round us here, and we are lucky in that there are lots of grammers.

What makes them stand out? A good all rounder or excelling in one area is enough?

I'd say from DS's year group, the ones who passed were-without exception-l3 at the end of y2 in reading/maths. The writing was less indicative of outcome. They were also all in the top set for maths and were all on the top or second from top maths table within that set. This info is from y5, btw, they didn't set before then.

My DS is at a Grammar school. In Yr2 I think he was probably considered a possible candidate - he got L3 in Maths and 2A in writing and 2B in reading. By Yr 5 he was considered a definite candidate - predicted (what he eventually got) high L5s in his SATs.

I tutored him myself with lots of good advice from the 11+ Exams Forum. We started about half way though Yr 4, in a fairly low key way. And more formally throughout Yr5.

I dfefinitly don't think you need to worry about it yet! Just support their learning in the way you would anyway - reading to them, hearing them read, supporting home work. Good vocabulary is essential, but can be picked up naturally in conversation. Trips to zoos, beaches, museums etc. are all great places to learn new vocabulary.

If she enjoys them then games and puzzles like crosswords, scrabble, hangman and Soduku are all good. And if she has access to technology then there's lots of aps and websites for letter and number games that can boost their skills without them even realising it! And don't forget TV, especially if you watch it with her and can discuss the programs you watch. And I dont just mean the more educational programs - there's loads of good vocab in Dr Who! But for the next few years keep it all very casual and fun, then you can decide whether she should do the more formal preparation later on.

SmileAndNod Mon 03-Mar-14 13:16:29

Sorry Kip is Kip McGrath - they seem to do most of the tutoring around these parts. Not sure what they actually do with the younger ones.

In my idealist view I would like to think that children who are able should be able to pass the 11+ without heavy tutoring. Seems sadly that this isn't the case any more.

You've actually saved money by not wasting it on Kip. All your dc will do is sit in a group with roughly 6 others and be given worksheets/ICT tasks by the teacher. Repeat until they get it right - that's £25 p/h btw.

If you want a tutor, spend the same amount on a one-to-one session and get a personal recommendation. if money is tight, tell the tutor that you can only afford limited sessions and get them to 'set you up for home' i.e guide you on what you should be doing with dc. One other option would be going in with a friend of similar ability and sharing the cost for an hour.

Also, remember Kip McGrath is a franchise - their teaching varies hugely.

As a KS2 teacher, I have always found it a little sad when the first question at parents evening is 'Is he/she on track for the 11+?' Teachers should be able to explain current levels and show you how much progress would need to be made to be at the right level to indicate that you might pass 11+ but I would not begin to think about it until year 4.
I have seen children tutored up to 11+, which they have passed, then when tutoring stops they make little or no progress in year 6. This is not good for their self esteem and they may struggle in a grammar school if they are not genuinely at the expected level. VR and NVR can be practised for familiarity.

Loveroflife - you have reassured me about the tutoring, esp with Kip. I can do worksheets ad nauseum with ds at home and use the money for other things he likes like trips to castles etc instead . He is only year 1 so I'm trying not to stress about things too much - I just feel pressure already.

I would never dream of asking his teacher about 11+ potential wouldn't they say at some point in the future? But then I don't really ask how he compares to others either, just if he's doing ok.

I do wish I could buy a book that tells me how to be a good mother. Could do with some help!

As a KS2 teacher, I have always found it a little sad when the first question at parents evening is 'Is he/she on track for the 11+?

Oh no, poor parents! We cant do write for doing wrong, always asking the wrong thing worried about being a so called pushy parent.

I would save my sadnes for the lack of decent schools around myself.

Most parents like myself have no idea whats going on in education right now except some schools are horrific and its a bun fight to get a half decent school in many areas.

I think at my DD last parents evening her first proper one I think I was to scared to ask any questions at all about anything.

I think transparency is key in all areas like school, care and so on.

I should be ale to ask the question, and not be afraid of what teacher may think, and we should be able to have an honest chat about it.

My friends dc are at private schools which are geared to scholarships and 11 plus, if in state we cannot even ask, the basic fundamental questions, that already puts us at a disadvantage.

He is only year 1 so I'm trying not to stress about things too much - I just feel pressure already

I don't think any parent can afford to be complacent. Asking questions and learning doesn't mean your going to saddle your child into a hot house of learning . Don't forget some people and teachers have strong distaste for the 11+ and selective schools full stop.

What concerns me, is a child who does have ability and then gets a bad teacher or suddenly looses interest in work, or who just for some reason is not reaching their potential, how on earth do parents with their first child in this system know any of this if we are made to feel scared to even ask the questions about our own child!

It has been said on a few threads about this sort of thing that state primaries set the bar woefully lower than an indie.

So how can you compete with a similarly intelligent child at a school who simply sets the bar higher from the get go.

smileandnod

I guess what I am saying is, don't feel pressure just arm yourself with information,then you dont need to get stressed because you have a better understanding of - expectations.

rollonesummer are you a teacher? Would teachers get tutors for 11+

Haven't you started already? Mine did about 30 mins pw of verbal and non verbal from the start of year 1. Need to concentrate on widening vocabulary too.

rollonesummer are you a teacher? Would teachers get tutors for 11+

I am, yes. Plenty of teachers do get tutors for their children. It depends on what they teach, I suppose, and how confident they feel with the 11+ material.

Rollon, wow!

Its very topical subject at moment due to today being allocation day.

I saw that one school had over a thousand applicants for 160 places

goingmad and yours are in grammers now I pressume..

Grammar. Yes, 3 have been to grammar/are currently there, 1 now at top RG studying Law. Dd3 is Y5.

Actually, did v little till y5. No tutor, just me - but I am a teacher. Just lots of reading and playing board/word games.

Apologies for my earlier sarcasm. I love grammar schools, and am thrilled my 3 older ones had the benefit of a fantastic education for free. Very much hope no. 4 will follow in their footsteps. I teach Y6 and am now doing some extra work with dd3. Tutors can be great - but PLEASE make sure you have a good one. There are plenty of people out there who are willing to take your money but not deliver. Lots of help on the internet - but sadly also a lot of substandard websites too.

Why the 'wow'?

It's always easier to teach someone else's child. Honestly.

Why the 'wow'?

It raises the bar again.

Us lay people with no understanding of how things work, no tricks or techniques on how to teach and so on, have as much of an idea of what to do as going to build an aeroplane....

and cant afford tutors, trying to do it ourselves, have teachers who need tutors!

If your a teacher I tink the quality of help - general support is going to be of a far higher quality than us lay parents.

Apologies for my earlier sarcasm

Oh I didnt realise, i know independant schools expose children from year 1 to vr and nvr so half an hour a week didnt seem like such a big deal,

I cant afford a tutor this is why I am asking what we can do as parents

It's always easier to teach someone else's child. Honestly

But you do understand that being a teacher in the first place gives YOU a massive advantage over parents who have no clue about teaching? Whether its hard or not to teach your own child you still have the training and the knowledge?

I mean if I was a teacher I wouldn't be worried at all, it just strikes me as a little disingenuous to be a teacher and play down the advantage that will give you whilst being sarcastic to someone about asking about it all.

You are making very valid points OP. I also find it irritating that teacher parents make out that they are at no advantage.

I also get riled by the "don't ask teachers if your child should be sitting the 11+ in Y5, you should know from their levels".

Really? I'm in Kent, have a DS in Y5 and levels have never been mentioned in relation to suitability for the 11+.

But equally I totally agree it much easier to teach someone else's child. Both my children play up more for me than they do for a teacher or tutor.