Level 6 year 6

[ladyquinoa]

Bright class. A number of kids got sats level 6 for writing (DS too) I know that's a good level to achieve but surely level 6 in year 6 can't be equivalent to level 6 in secondary school. But also if they are achieving level 6 now does that mean A's at GCSE. What about A level?

Basically the 'level 6' is not given a category (6.1,6.5 or 6.9) so it is in effect a 5.9 because there is never not a category except in sats

kingscotestaff I can't understand how this can work in our children's school where there is no L6 test and we were told in a newsletter that children will not be taught L6. Yet half of the children got a L3 in their KS1 sats.

Blueberrypotts only about 10% of schools do L6 tests so no they only need a level 5 by year seven and level 4 is seen as average

Whether they do the tests or not if a child is working at level 6 the school will teach level 6 (the same level 6 as taught in secondary schools)

Blueberrypots if the children achieved level 3 level 5 would be the expected level and in order for teaching/learning to be considered good they would need to achieve a level 6 at the end of KS2.

ok that is very interesting mrz, thank you.

We only don't "do" L6 tests if we don't have anyone working at that level! There IS a level 6 available for every child in every school if they are working at that level , for a school to say " we don't do Level 6 and we don't teach level 6" is bizarre and very dangerous when OFSTED come calling! ( especially if you have plenty of level 3 children at KS1, they are expected to be level 6's by year 6!) As with KingscoteStaff, I am expected to achieve above national average Outstanding progress for performance management.

Actually, thinking about this again. We were told by ofsted that we had to be better than expected progress in key stage two. So 14 points - our level 3's are treated as 3b's, so I think we have to convert them to 5a's if possible. At least a 5b.

Does that make sense? So level 6 where a child was a 3a or above at end of key stage 2...

Well its all a waste of time now as levels are being scrapped and apparently Head teachers are now expected to come up with their own assessment levels!

How on earth they will report that in the league tables is a puzzle...

One of the key measures for OFSTED is measuring a school against national figures for above average progress, so basically they look at progress of cohorts of children achieving each level at KS1 into KS2, Schools are expected to be above the national average for conversion from each sub level at KS1 to each sublevel at KS2 ( don't get me started on everyone being above average, Gove is clearly no mathematician!!)
I know, I spent hours yesterday looking at raiseonline progress measures and trying to identify how many of my children were going to achieve 16 points progress by the end of the year. IIRC it has to be above 35% for maths and 30% for reading but may be wrong! whatever it is, its a nightmare!

Shame Gove et al won't let us get on with doing the one thing that will help pupils to progress...

Teach them that is rather than wasting time poring over graphs and figures.

All of my sons were secure level 6 in maths in year 6, they all achieved a* at gcse and a at a level.
However, so did many of their friends who achieved level 4 or level 5 in year 6. The prediction tables do not take into consideration changing circumstances and maturity of children as they move through secondary school. I have taught many children over the years who were level 1 or 2 in year 2 but have gone on to achieve good degrees.

Of course they don't, nor do they take into consideration anything else! It simply reduces children to statistics and averages-and not very good averages at that. However schools are ruled and judged by these prediction tables, both primary and secondary, and woe betide you if the predictions aren't met ( or actually exceeded!)

Interesting, because we got a very worrying letter saying just that. Something along the lines of "the governors have voted against a L6 test as an all-school policy, and as a consequence of this, L6 will not be taught in this school". Should I send to Ofsted?

This is in fact one of the main reasons I had to pull my DD1 out of this school. As she was working at a very high level in Y3 we were told that she would not be taught much more beyond that level and if we wanted to we were welcome to work with her at home.

When I read all this on here, I just cannot get my head round what they will say to Ofsted when they turn up - hopefully soon - Ofsted hasn't been for at least 6 years.

Blueberry, much as I find Ofsted's approaches strange and harsh, that sounds completely wrong!

A school should be able to teach each child at their own level and ability.

What does the progress data look like on the Dashboard? When one of ours dropped, they were in like a shot.

Until this year (or possibly last year?) Most year 6 pupils did not routinely sit a level 6 paper. So the highest they could achieve was level 5. Which means they would be scored at level 5, but might actually be higher.

Schools have always been able to teacher assess at level 6 though.

It's not always classed as a lvl 5 in Secondary, because in Y6, they can only TEST up to lvl 6. My DS1 got lvl 6 SATS, but is working on lvl 6a in English and lvl 7a / 8c in Maths halfway through Y7.

It REALLY does depend on what level they are REALLY working at. For some, a lvl 6 in Y6 will be a lvl 5 in Y7 because they were only 'just' a lvl 6 IYSWIM. Those so got 100% in the lvl 6 SATS could well be working ABOVE a lvl 6, but the primary SATS tests aren't geared to test any higher than lvl 6...

Secondaries do their own testing anyway, CATS tests in the first half term of Y7.

CouthyMow they can Teacher Assess at whatever level the child is working at and use old KS3 tests if they feel tests are necessary.

That's very odd blueberry

On the subject of levels and progress, RAISEonline treats this in a very odd way. It's progress figures basically don't differentiate between sublevels at the end of either KS1 or KS2.

So for RAISE to show expected progress, a child with a 2c at the end of KS1 has to attain a level 4 (any level 4) at the end of KS2 ie make a minimum of 12 points progress. A child with a 2a at the end of KS1 also has to attain any level 4 at the end of KS2 ie a minimum of 8 points progress.

Meanwhile to show better than expected progress they both need to get to level 5, which (all other things being equal) is obviously much more easily attainable with the child who starts from 2a (min of 10 points progress).

So in RAISE, 10 points progress from 2c = failure to make expected progress.
10 points progress from 2a = better than expected

Similarly any child who gets a level 3 at the end of KS2 has to achieve a level 6 for RAISE to recognise that as better than expected progress.

Our school has a lot of our own data to show where those children are in fact making very good progress when you look at the points. Fingers crossed the next Ofsted inspector is prepared to look at it. It seems ludicrous to me though that the official data system has such a glaring inconsistency.

Learned all this at recent RAISE training. Interestingly though we were also told that schools are advised not to assess as L3 at the end of KS1 unless the child is working very securely at that level ie 3b or above.

DD is is Year 5 and has just achieved 5C in science. (Her assessment was graded by another science teacher to check it was actually a 5C; the teacher was so impressed with it.

Her maths class (she's 5C) is doing L6 and some L7 work. In English she is a 5B and working towards a L6.

A L6 is a L6 it would seem. Interesting thread! Off to read it all.

(And ours is a middle school, teaching Years 5 to 8, so primary and secondary)

ShoeWhore, the raiseonline progression matrices do subdivide levels at Ks1 but only level 2-which is split into 2c,2b and 2a. Level 1 and level3 are whole levels.

Mrz - that's what they did, teacher assessed him as higher, but the SATS themselves only measure up to a lvl 6.

Interestingly though we were also told that schools are advised not to assess as L3 at the end of KS1 unless the child is working very securely at that level ie 3b or above.

How true that is. However, our Year 2 teachers are also being given performance related pay targets about the percentage of level 3s (ie 3B!) achieved by their classes...

While we're on the subject, what about this one? Child A starts primary school in another Borough. He achieves Level 3s in all subjects. Mum tells me that this was partly due to intensive coaching by Dad.

Child A left the country at the start of Year 4 and lived in a country where there is very little Primary education. He did no learning in English, and the only formal learning he did in his own language was memorising religious texts.

Just before Christmas, Child A returned to this country. He is now 11 and joined my Year 6 class. The most recent assessment I've done levels him as 3B/3A. And yet Raise Online will expect 5B+!!!!

Even though he's been out of the country, he still has KS1 data from his old school, and so must be included in our school's progress results.

Anyone dealt with a situation like this?