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Year 4 class majority at 4c

32 replies

Cakeismymaster · 10/02/2014 13:29

Hi, wondered if I could get some experience/input on this. My ds is in yr 4, last month we had a progress report and he is working at level 4c. So I looked up the levels etc and versus the quoted averages he seemed to be doing well, a little bit ahead of where he should be. Cue a 'treat' for him to say well done. A few weeks later it turns out that basically the entire class bar maybe 5 children are also at the 4c level. Now, maybe I'm being cynical but I am thinking either they are a class full of fairly bright kids or (more likely) the school are over setting the levels so to speak? Because what's the point of having average levels as indicators when a teacher/head/school then decrees the whole class at a high-ish level - aren't the school then creating their own 'averages' ?

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Taffeta · 12/02/2014 18:57

From my limited experience I would also say its unusual to have nearly an entire cohort at this level halfway through Y4.

Yes a top table or group or toe but not the majority of the cohort.

Cakeismymaster · 12/02/2014 20:22

I agree with the poster who said discussing levels with younger children is detrimental to their motivation. This is exactly what has happened with yr2 ds. He's been told he is currently 'only' a 2b and now thinks (and I quote) that he is 'the dumbest in the class'
Sad

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PastSellByDate · 13/02/2014 11:11

I think this discussion raises the whole delimma of the process of explaining to parents how your child is doing in some sort of context which can be understood beyond the school gates - so performance locally/ nationally.

NC Levels in theory were targets of expected standard of achievement by a certain point. Benchmarks if you will.

These can be arrived at formulaically by having a child sit a SAT test and then using scores to work out bands. Thresholds for scores are by whole NC Levels: e.g. 2012 KS2 Maths SATs L3-5 paper here www.satspapers.co.uk/sats-papers/ks2/level-thresholds/ks2-2012-level-thresholds.pdf

This means that the level has to be divided into thirds:

Soon this 2012 L3-L5 KS2 Maths SATs paper level 4 scores are 40 - 60

40 - 46 - could be L4c
46 - 52 - could be L4b
53 - 60 - could be L4a

But there actually is no guidance - and schools can 'game' this.

From a parents perspective (and I'm just a Mum) we want to know:

How is our child doing?
Are they doing well?
Are they struggling?
where do they need to improve?

Obviously this can be discussed in long-winded fashion - but as teachers are busy people - the short-hand of NC Levels (or grades as we use in the US) means that a parent can quickly scan a list of subjects and see notionally that their DC is doing well, struggling, etc....

As this document (see assessment on P2)-
www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/276674/National_curriculum_and_assessment_from_September_2014_fact_sheet_update.pdf

  • demonstrates - from 2014 NC Levels will be abandoned and each school can opt to describe performance in anyway they like.

This has a number of problems:

Schools can avoid those hard discussions (your kid doesn't get subtraction) and just tell parents DC has scored 3 unicorns and is doing fine - which of course means absolutely nothing and doesn't convey any form of relevant information on performance.

I fear this new system is going to lead to a lot of anger. The only points where assessment will be on a nationally agreed scale will be KS2 SATs and KS4 GCSEs. Both results reported so late in the cycle that there is little or nothing a parent can do to remedy the situation (more help at home, purchase of workbooks, ensuring regular access to reading material, etc...).

I suspect the vast majority of schools will handle this transition sensitively and try to give parents information that will make it clear when a child needs more support or when a child is doing well or even exceptionally well. However, I remain sceptical about how our school will handle this and suspect it's right back to the drawing board for parents - with nothing but vague statements about 'what children did in D&T' (or other subjects) this year and what they particularly enjoyed.

SlightlyTerrified · 13/02/2014 17:50

Brilliant post, I totally agree. The schools will have to come up with something otherwise there will be major issues at GCSE stage.

Personally I like having some sort of bench mark but I am not sure the current NC levels are that great either, although I have no idea of what a better or 'the right' way is.

simpson · 13/02/2014 22:37

I would be very Angry if my 2B child in yr2 felt they were the dumbest in the class.

ladyquinoa · 14/02/2014 06:42

My boys are in bright year groups. Good number of level 6 with the rest being level 5 in year 6.

The year below are more mixed ability

ladyquinoa · 14/02/2014 06:47

It has meant that the bottom of the class is 4a 5c and the parents assume their kids are not bright when they are

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