Private - is it worth it?

[racmun]

Ds is due to start Reception in September. He attends the preps at a private school and is thriving there eg writing his name, starting to read and most importantly he loves it there.

He's the youngest in the class and doesn't turn 4 until August which is one of the reasons we like the school- they guarantee no more than 18 in the class and have a teacher and full time TA so lots of individual attention.

BUT we live in an area with really good state schools,

A few of my friends keep banging on at me that it's a waste of money to go private and that the state schools are just good.

We have applied and in all reality expect to be offered a place at an ouststanding school albeit one that is bursting at the seams (it takes in double the number it was designed for).

I really like the private school but am now worrying that we will be 'wasting' about £800 a month.

So those of you with children at private prep schools why did you make the choice and would you do it again?

Thank you

I've used outstanding state primaries and my dcs outgrew them quickly (by about year 4)

great schools but not enough stuff going on esp sport

She hasn't ignored it

she has made a decision

perhaps not the decision you were hoping for

I wasn't "hoping" for any decision.

"She'd have done just as well at the local comp and being with boys and children of all backgrounds would take her out of the bubble that is her protected home life."

how on earth do you know that??

Several reasons for us.

1. Our 'outstanding' local state schools have a 20-30% pass rate for the 11+. Local private (non-selective) gets 95%.

1. Reception at the private school has class of around 12 kids with 3 p/t teaching assistants. State has class of 30 with 1 p/t teaching assistant.

1. School is incredibly warm and friendly. It's small but that means all the older kids look out for the little ones and know all their names. All pupils are super-polite and discipline is excellent.

1. Private school offers decent after school activities and proper music lessons. The art on the walls looks like it's been done by much older kids. The state cannot compete with any of this.

The nature of this debate is it splits 50/50 whatever the OP decided she was going to go against 1/2 the advice.

Personally I'd always say start with state primary if it's reasonable, because upto 7-8 being pushed academically and having amazing sporting facilities doesn't matter at all.

Then I have also known parents move very sporty or very bright DC because state is no longer a good fit. It can be ten miles to a decent level sports club, for a 9yo.

Glad you have made your decision OP and you're happy with it.

You're always going to get people criticising your choice if it's different from theirs, so grow a thick skin fast! I've had perfect strangers make comments to me about DS's school in the supermarket (they know where he goes from his uniform) and find it incredible that they have the cheek tbh. I would NEVER criticise someone for sending their child to at state school, but if you send your child to private school you seem to become fair game for some reason!

Yes you do find people are critical of the choice to go private. I think it is for a couple of reasons, although Im certainly not justifying them, just trying to understand..
People see you having something they haven't. They don't like that. They get a sense that perhaps you are having something better than what they have, which feels uncomfortable and unfair. There is a sense that their children, whom they love very much are not receiving the best. (Which I suppose it is unfair, because not everyone can afford it and people feel an equal level of education should be available to all)
They deal with it by being critical. This might involve saying you should support local schools. Or it might involve saying that they are getting as good a service as you, so you are wasting your money. Whatever the criticism, there is usually an underlying sense that perhaps you are getting something they are not. Even if they don't know if it is better or not, they know that you are paying and they are not. Saying you are wasting your money moves their sense of unfairness away from THEM losing out, to turn it into YOU losing out.
It doesn't help that people tell you these things. But I think it is understandable, because people with children in private schools do have something beyond most people, which is inherently unfair. If we are in a position to afford private education, we are very fortunate and need to appreciate it isn't fair. I think a good response is to smile and simply say 'I'm really glad your school is working out for you' or something similar. There's no need to justify yourself, but be generous.

Of course there are those who ethically are opposed to private education too. They don't tend to say you are wasting your money though!

Hi OP, glad you've made your choice as i understand it's a tough one to make - we deliberated over it for some time and eventually moved DD (8) from 'outstanding' state to private in October as we felt strongly that the school was letting her down. Her teacher (newly qualified) was kicked out having failed her assessments, having taught our DD for a whole year, not to mention many other problems during her 4 years there. She is now settled and i couldn't be happier with the quality of teaching she is receiving, not to mention the pastoral care. The teachers are responsive, always available to parents, class size is max of 12 with teacher and 2 teaching assistants. The wraparound care is very helpful to working parents and the clubs she's attending are excellent and varied. Sport 5 times a week (tennis/swimming/hockey/netball/running), music lessons during these hours, french and german taught etc... i could go on and on... i am very happy with our decision, the sacrifices that we will make are worth it for us.
Good luck

Sorry if this is derailing and this is absolutely not a criticism of anyone. Vive la difference and all that. But I am curious, all those who have children in a class of twelve, how they find it socially?

I went through primary school in a class of twenty with two teachers. At the end of primary school we were sooooooo sick of each other! Really, really distressingly so - still shudder thinking about it.

I can absolutely understand the appeal in terms of attention, discipline, differentiated learning, etc. Am sure most state teacher would admit that 12 would be easier to manage than 30.

Twelve sounds so small though, though if it were single sex it would be the same pool of friends as I had, I suppose, we were co-ed. And maybe it is 12 in a bigger year group, which we were not.

I would love to hear your thoughts on the social side.

I agree that classes can be too small. If classes are small, but there are several in a year group, it can be fine.
However if there is only 1 class in a year group with 12 is can cause a number of difficulties. I have friends with girls in a class of 12 and there is only 1 class in the year. There are 4 girls. They do have good times, but bicker a lot and are just not on each others wave length. There aren't enough to make a netball team or to do the things you need a bit of a crowd for. Sometimes they join with the 5 girls in the year above.

I would say be very accareful of the very small school. It may be described as cosy, but is it viable long term. You must ask the difficult questions about long term trends in numbers and dont be fobbed off.

DD is in a class of that size but there are three classes in the year so 40 altogether (this is the max they will have in a year and it is full). They do games/swimming together 4 times a week plus drama and music together (2 or 3 times a week?) all with several teachers so they are taken off in smaller groups. I get the impression from the children she talks about that they mix the classes into different groups for those things so that they mix with other children. At lunch they have set tables with a mix from the three classes and a teacher/TA at each. Of course they also have playtime together and for any clubs there are children from different classes.

This means that she has the small class for the main academic subjects but mixes with others from across the year all through the day so lots of potential friends. Certainly she seems to know a lot of children though she's only been there a few weeks. We've had party invitations (not all year parties) and play invitations from children from other classes so it must work.

Then from next year (yr 3) they will mix the classes round again and also set into smaller groups for maths and English (and science?).

Thanks both - Gin99, 40 sounds fine. ChocolateWombat - "just not on the same wavelength" was my trouble. They were all nice enough girls. I still know most of them, actually, but some were from a very religious group that didn't really mix and the rest were dreadfully horse-focused and I just wasn't. We had nothing in common and it was them or only them for seven years. We managed a netball team, just, but most of us wanted to do football and we couldn't scrape to that!

And of course those of us who can't afford private are jealous of those of you who can. That goes without saying.

I do, however still believe, being the last year who left university debt free and without loans, that swapping early primary fees for adult savings is well worth considering.

It really does depend on where you live and what you personally think of the schools.

My DS is in a fabulous state primary. He loves it. He is challenged and stretched and has the opportunity for lots of 'other' activities, such as chess, music, lots of spots and film club, which he loves. He is in year 4, but the school ethos is about children of different ages working together, dependant on their abilities. He works with year 6 for numeracy and literacy.

However, our local senior schools are appalling. 1 is in special measures and the other 3 need improvement. If I don't see any drastic changes in the next 18 months, then we will be applying to the 2 private Grammar schools near us. I can afford it at a push and they offer so much more than our local state schools.

One thing that always hits home for me, is that there is only a small percentage of people in this country who have had a private education (approx 10%), but look at the percentage for the amount of CEO's in this country and nearly 70% of them had a private education. It's not just exam results that count, but having been to a very good, well known school and then using that as a spring board into a good Uni and then into a decent job. There is still a huge divide in this country, so for me personally, if I have the choice, my DS will go to a private Grammar.

It is all about your own personal situation though.

(I have cousins who both got shipped off to a very exclusive Boarding School at the age of 10 and it didn't do them any good in terms of their careers or job prospects or even their whole attitude to life. I went to a state school, did appalling in my 'O' levels and have a very well paid job that I love).

I have a dd in reception and she started at a girls prep school last September. It has been brilliant for her because the reception teacher is so good. My dd was a bit behind others her age with her command of language and in one term she is much more articulate and can now read. She has also fitted in well with her peers. I feel that in a state school she may have coasted more and may not have learned so much. Some children find everything easy and seem very mature at 4 or 5 while my kids are still babies at that age (not literally but you know what I mean)

In your position I would leave him at the prep school if you can afford it, because he is doing well now and also because he is August born. If it's right for him, leave him there IMO. OTOH, if you feel he's very able and would do well in a bigger class then look at the state option.

Caterpillar - my older dd is in a class of 12. She's in year 5. I have to say that you are right - they certainly do get sick of each other and that is a disadvantage. It seems to be more of a problem as they get older because of becoming hormonal and irritable. My dd has one friend in her class who she really likes and the others she doesn't like to spend her time with so much. I do think this is a shame.

Lotttieandmia - sorry to hear about your daughter. It is around the age of nine I remember getting really fed up with them, so similar to your daughter. Will she go somewhere bigger next?

I am not sure Caterpillar. It is a very close knit school and I am not sure how she would cope. She's having a bit of a bad patch at the moment anyway which I am putting down to her age. If I ask her she says she wants to stay where she is. But then, it's all she knows.

Interesting that you report getting fed up at a similar age though!

I took my DD away from her prep school and went state because the prep school ended up with ludicrously small classes from year 3/4. When she was there year 5 had 8 children and year 6 had 4 children. As her class moved through the school, they ended up with only 8 in year 6 from a high of 30 in Reception. One boy stayed all the way through and ended up on his own. How sad is that? The early years was outstanding but lack of sport, music, drama, art and social issues meant people either wanted a brilliant prep or worked out state was just as good, if not a lot better in many cases. Too many children were over-protected and too many parents thought the small classes were brilliant. They were not. The children were not particularly well taught higher up the school and it was pretty poor value for money. Some parents liked the bragging rights. Didn't make their children any brighter though.

I think that Chocolate makes some very good points. I have people commenting that I must have loads of money to afford private school (its because both my DH and I have chosen to work full time, no career breaks, no part time working etc).

We are high earners, however we have chosen to go down the private route because we can afford it. We live in the SE and will stay here all our working lives because this is where the higher paid roles are.

I have got into discussions with people on MN who have never set foot in any well known private boarding school for example spouting off about how unhappy the kids are and how bad the teachers are. Its only because they have bright children that they get the results they do etc.

If a teacher is bad and you are paying over 30k for a private education I can assure you that you will have something to say about it.

My DS was not particularly academic and late Aug birthday.

Surrounding him with some very clever people as well as people who can just blink and afford the fees (which doesnt necessarily make you bright) has ensured that he got great GCSE results and he will probably be set up for life educationally.

Don't waste your money if you have great state schools on your doorstep! From personal experience, so many arrive after two or three years in a mediocre private school and are years behind their peers. Look beyond all the plush front of house designed to suck you in. What are the resources like in the actual classrooms? Take them on amazing holidays instead!

The thing is though, in terms of Ofsted a provision that is outstanding is not necessarily as good as it looks on paper. My younger dds nursery was outstanding but she didn't do very well there and is doing much better at school.

My eight year old has been in prep since reception. It's in year three that we've seen major results. But we have very bad state schools.