What is that reading difficulty rule (year 1 question)?

[lljkk]

Something like if they struggle with every 10th word, then the reading level is about right, but if they struggle every 3rd word then it's too hard, every 25th word then not hard enough?

Anyone know what I'm talking about & what the rule of thumb is? I keep finding DS's books way too hard for him (I think, but trying to get 3rd opinion before I approach teacher).

90-95% accuracy is what we aim at.

For guided reading, the error rate is supposed to be from 1 in 10 to 1 in 20. So 1 mistake every 10-20 words would be about right.

But of course it's never that easy- fluency, understanding and confidence are all important too. How often does your DS struggle? And can he get the words with a little encouragement or are there words in there that he has no hope of sounding out?

Hmmm. I prefer greater rather than lesser fluency (as a parent not a teacher). I would go at least 9 in 10 words correct, if not more- isn't it 90-95% correct? If there are too many words they struggle with it undermines confidence and enjoyment IMO. I'd rather they could almost do it all, just the odd word- that's in books designed to be their level. If you are sharing other books then it's a very personal decision on what they read/you read/how you do it.

What do you mean by 'struggle' with words? Do you mean 'hasn't got a clue how to work them out' or 'needs to decode and blend them'?

I think it depends on so many things. I was under the impression it should be 90-95% accuracy but fluency does come into it, should they be sounding some of the words out still, does that count as not being able to read it or if they sound it out correctly but it isn't fluently read then is that ok?

How does he feel about it? If you personally feel he is struggling then I would put a note in his reading diary or ask his teacher and see what they say.

It can take them a little while to adjust to a harder level so could it be that?

Maizie's asked my question for me. Personally in year 1 I wouldn't be too bothered by a child having to 'sound out' lots of words as long as it wasn't hindering comprehension of the text. Even if that was more than 1 in 10 words.

On the other hand if they can't sound out 10% or more of the words at all the book is probably not appropriate.

You also need to take comprehension of the text into account.

I suspect the rule you are talking about is slightly outdated. You might be better off listing the reasons you think make the books too hard for him and talking to the teacher about those.

nonickname I would count sounding out correctly as being able to read it.

The sound out correctly depends on the words, Mr, Mrs and the name St John, can't be sounded out correctly.

oh ok - I wasn't sure about that. DD2 sounds out about 1 in 8 words in her book but nearly always gets them right (unless the book is introducing new spellings of a sound when on the first couple of pages she might get confused because they haven't been taught those ones yet). I wasn't sure if this counted as ok or not.

thanks, this is helpful.
hard for me to get head around it.
So if DS can decode correctly but with effort, perhaps stumbling once or twice, but still get it correct without being told, 90% of the time, then the level might be about right?

I suppose I think he's being put off because there are too many words on each page, and if he has to work hard to decode say every 3rd-4th word, although he can decode them eventually, it's a lot of work for a 5yo. Doesn't help his comprehension at all, because of the stop-start nature of it, too. So many words per page means that it takes ages to progress thru the book, so no sense of achievement for him, just slogging.

I'm getting the most basic books from library for him as well, to boost his confidence as well.

Next question would be, are his books decodable? If they are, they shouldn't contain any correspondences he hasn't been taught and their purpose is to give lots of practice in sounding out and blending. It may seem a bit hard and time consuming at the moment but the more he practises the more fluent he will become.

OTH, 'too many words on the page' sounds a bit ominous...He shouldn't be getting books which knock his confidence. You do right to take him back a bit.

I teach a little older but for the children at y1 levels we use some of these techniques.
Story walk through - just to talk about the pictures ect. If you spot a word he will struggle to decode (eg you know he's finding ay tricky - you might say - what are the cows eating - ohh can you find that word? - so he's seen it before trying to decode himself)
Re-reading pages he has just read - so he can start to understand the text if he has needed to concentrate on blending. That's when you could ask the comprehension questions (so why do you think the fish was scared?)
Reading only a few pages of a trickier book. Say he reads 1-4 then you read 5-6. Tomorrow you read 1-4 and he reads 5-8. As long as he follows the text when you read he will certainly be learning from it.

We also work at 90-95% accuracy but would go slightly either side depending on comprehension levels (just as important really!)

DS is yr1; that would take so long, Neverhere, I guess I didn't think of daily evening reading as more than a 10 minute job although it could be only 10 minutes if he only tries to read 2 pages I guess. There are maybe 30 words on some of his pages, 10-20 more typically. I think he knows how to decode what's there, but he has to stop & think about each & every one.

So for example - an EAL child who has a strong phonics understanding but a lower vocab might read a book they can decode more easily (high 90%) so we have more time to discuss the language.

Oh no - I wouldn't be working for more than 10 mins at that age. Tbh the books I'm taking about have 3-5 lines on each page. But if it's taking that long I would stick to one page! Does he have a reading record? Do you know how many pages he reads in school?
Our y1 teacher would prob only spend 10 of reading then a further 10 of questions with a group of children. It is starting to sound a little hard (or maybe just too long?!)

If he's finding it a bit of a slog, and it's affecting his concentration and confidence, then it might not be the right level regardless of how many words he needs to decode/struggles completely with.

Is he definitely expected to read the entire book or just to do 10mins a night? I think some teachers just send the book home and aren't particularly good at communicating what they expect parents to do with it so messages get a bit mixed. Little and often (i.e. a couple of pages a night) is definitely better than spending lots of time fighting over getting children to read the whole book or only reading when you have time to get through the whole book.

I think if it is taking that long then you do need to speak to the teacher. 2-3 pages shouldn't take 10 minutes.

eg you know he's finding ay tricky - you might say - what are the cows eating - ohh can you find that word? - so he's seen it before trying to decode himself)

I'm struggling to find any logic in this bit of 'advice'. Until he has decoded the word he won't know what it 'says'; word recognition comes after decoding, not before. So how is he supposed to 'see it before he decodes it'?

Heh? The cows aren't going to be eating fish and chips, are they, surely. Just because a child is having trouble reading that doesn't mean he's forgotten what cows eat.

Thanks for replies :)

If children who struggle to decode can read the months of the year, can they still read them when they're jumbled up in order?

I think building confidence, fluency and comprehension are as important as practicising decoding, so I think you're absolutely doing the right thing to get him easier books. DS1 ploughed through everything quite robustly, but DS2 is more sensitive and gets discouraged easily, so I'm quite happy to keep him on books that are comfortably within his ability.

Heh? The cows aren't going to be eating fish and chips, are they, surely. Just because a child is having trouble reading that doesn't mean he's forgotten what cows eat.

I'm sure that he won't have, but how is he going to recognise the word before he has decoded it?

We'll I suppose it makes them think about the sounds that make grass - g, r, ah and s and the different ways they could be spelled and hence make a guess.

Because decoding a word isn't the only way of recognising it.