School friends from deprived families

[poppytin]

DS1 just started reception in September. We didn’t get our first choice of school which could be seen from our house due to oversubscription and sibling rule. DS1 now goes to second choice school which is in a more deprived area although the school has performed rather well and been improving. We’re 7th on the waiting list for first choice school which has very low turnover so chances of getting in are pretty slim. I have no issue with the school as given its circumstances ie high FSM and SEN its performance is very good. However I can’t seem to make myself like the families of the children there. At the school gate I’ve met people in their pyjamas, with cigarettes on their fingers, piercings on etc. I’ve seen people shouting/swearing at each other in the playground while waiting for their children. DS was invited to a birthday party of one of the boys in his class and it was the worst house I’ve ever set foot in. Mom was in nightie with a cig on when we arrived at mid day. DS1 appears to be academic, loves reading and writing, both DH and I have masters from redbrick units and are in professional jobs, our house is walled with books and CDs.

DS loves his school and teachers which is the main reason I’m using to calm me down. However I worry whether the environment where his friends grow in would have an impact on him and his education.

Any opinions?

Never land....I'm sorry that's your experience but that is not mine.

Have taught in the 3rd most deprived borough in the uk for 8 years. I'm privileged to work with the most amazing teachers who have very high expectations.

The school I work at achieve 96% combined level 4 this year. We have 98% EAL pupils, 60% free school meals and severe over crowding in pupils homes. They are surrounded in their community by crime and poverty.

I find what you say offensive. There are brilliant schools and brilliant teachers all over the uk in tough areas and affluent suburbs. There are also awful, failing schools in these areas.

• plus...sod the high SATs scores we get...I'm proffer to say out children are funny, polite, enthusiastic, kind and a pleasure to teach. The teachers want even more for our pupils because of the deal they're getting in life. We choose to work in such areas with the extra challenge that brings.

Are you from the Czech Republic Neverland2013? I don't know if it is entirely true that all children there have the same access to education and hence the same chances in life, news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8456882.stm but good luck with your school move. I hope you find what you are looking for.

'violent dog types on leads'

What the fuck?

mammadiggingdeep Tue 10-Dec-13 21:21:51
Can I just throw into this thread that manners, morals and education have nothing to do with how rich you are.
in this case, all the statistics pointing to the direct link between educational attaintment and socio-economic status are persistently wrong then!

Some 'violent type dogs' are seen as a status symbol in certain communities. To walk about with a violent type dog sends a certain message in those communities. So it is actually fairly relevant.

But the loose phrase "violent dog types" (I haven't seen the original quote) appears to refer to the owners, and then when succeeded by "on leads," it tends to suggest that the owners are on leads.

This is what happens when one neglects ones grammar.

Madasabox

we have very similar situ in our family, but we were not MC nor fell on hard times, we got a nice house on a lovely street, the neighbours didn't want us there! I suppose we were the white trash of the road really, alcohol, police called out lots, arguing, fighting, loud music.... but the one person in my family got sent to a rougher school and fell in with bad crowd and he and we have all been paying the price ever since...

I didn't think about it referring to the owners, I must have had a sense of humour bypass or lived in areas for too long where there are lots of violent dog types of both the canine variety and human variety, but generally only the canine ones were on leads .

At least the violent dogs were on a lead, round here when you see, violent dog types, the owner is proudly stutting with it off lead...

winterclause I think I have to agree with you, I have seen examples and heard of it in pockets round here....
We had issues with our old neighbours children they were far more street wise at 5 and 7 than my own DC, and it wasn't something I wanted my dc exposed to.

The boy was allowed to play his dads violent over 18 video games, he acted these out in RL, I saw him kick his sister in ways which had I been the mum would have warranted severe punishments....Mum was tired, told him off but never enough....he was just a "cheeky type"....little girl came round and trashed my DD's room, they would come over and literally, get her stuff and trash and chuck it all, walking back from school, trample peoples gardens, jumping on cars, kicking the odd car bla bla bla.

They were horrid to my DD and in the end I had to stay away from my home when I knew they were in until I could get dd into the house and straight to bed, as their bedtime was whenever they wanted. .

I asked if she was going to watch olympics, she said "Nah, boring shite"...

MY dd behaviour did get worse around them and I thanked the lord when they moved. Mum was very sweet but she could not control her DC but the irony was she thought they were amazing polite children and kept telling me how many people thought soo.

I was really objecting to the casual and lazy blanket reference to 'violent dog types', presumably meaning certain breeds or cross-breeds that the fucking Daily Fail and people who read it some people seem to automatically assume are 'dangerous' and also associate with 'benefit scroungers', 'people smoking fags in nighties', 'people who live on council estates' and other hate figures who are, you know, going to single-handedly bring down naice MC society.

I think some councils take various dog related issues very seriously (and I suppose some don't.) For those for whom violent dog types are a real issue it might be worth finding out how seriously their environmental health officers take dog fouling. It's extremely likely that owners who don't keep their dogs on leads also leave their dogs' messes behind and if the local council is up to the task it will impose fines accordingly. I wouldn't know for sure, but I would suspect that irresponsible owners accumulate their transgressions. And I would hope that, at some point, their dogs are removed. (At least that would be logical. I know that real life and logic make uncomfortable bedfellows. Real life would suggest that council officers are afraid of both the violent dog types and the dogs and keep away from both them and their messes, leaving complaining residents to cringe in the poo.

I had the image of a pitbull type dog on a thick metal chain, which whilst quite stereotypical, is something that there was lots of where I used to live.

Headless lady, what papers do you think your people in nighties and on leads in council estates read?

Neverland2013, me and you have exactly the same history and exactly the same experience. I could have written your post word by word. Except that we moved to a very nice middle class area and I still felt the school was very substandard in comparison to what I experienced/was used to back home.

Neverland and blueberry, (you wouldn't happen to be German, by any chance, would you?) The problem with the UK school situation is that it clearly does make a huge difference whether or not the parents can or will tutor at home, (regardless of how that tutoring is supplied.) Whether or not that situation is a just one is beside the point. The fact is that it is the situation. What matters now is how individual parents deal with it.

Columngollum, I absolutely agree with you, this is what I realised after a couple of years!!! (I am not German, but definitely from another EU country not too far away!!)

OK, but, I sometimes hear it said how fair and equal the German system is. At primary level it's true. But at secondary level the Germans operate a tri-partite system which is also unfair, but simply different from our own.

There's a piece in the independent about Tower hamlets schools today. All Fifteen out of the fifteen secondary schools are good or outstanding. All primaries met their floor targets. Deprived borough/ bloody good schools. Teachers working their arses off. Kids achieving.

The snobbery in this site at times is disgusting.

columngollum, in your opinion is this tutoring situation limited to primary or does it continue in secondary too? Can't imagine how you could tutor the children in 5 or more GCSE subjects, although I guess everything is possible...

www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/from-fail-to-worlds-best-a-lesson-from-the-east-end-8996454.html?origin=internalSearch

Read the link above then tell me schools in deprived areas are always 'substandard' and that the kids are inferior to yours (which is what a lot of you tho k if you're honest)

VIteVitch, my 'people in nighties and on leads in council estates'? Eh? What people on leads? And why are they mine?

As to what papers they read, I don't know. Maybe some of them read the Mail but get pissed off with being stereotyped and demonised in it. Maybe others read other papers. I can't see that it matters. It just seems to me that the Fail leads the pack in making public hate figures out of whoever in society seems to be easy to pick on.

Personally I think there is a big difference between 'deprived' and 'deprived'. I live in a deprived area of London and my kids go to the local state primary. People are poor but generally employed albeit very low incomes (a lot of East Europeans and Asian families). Most are ESL too. The vast majority of these families are close-knit, loving, value education and are very hard working. They are different (in my very honest opinion) from the ones who turn up to school in their pyjamas, with violent dogs (sorry, had to at that, it's very true), who shout and swear at their kids and have TV dinners every night. I do know some areas like that (deprived parts of Essex for example) and God forbid would I send my kids to those schools. Sorry if that is snobby. It may well be. Like I said I think there is deprived and deprived.

I think there is deprived and then badly behaved. That's what you're describing and I agree.