What can you realistically expect from a school (KS1 levels)?

[pickledsiblings]

Can you 'expect' your DC to get a level 3 in writing at the end of KS1 because your previous 2 DC had level 3s at this stage? DC3 seems just as capable as them in other areas (more in some areas) but I'm pretty certain that unless I intervene there is no way he'll be getting that level 3 in writing or science.

DC1, girl was at a different school (private)
DC2, boy, joined school in question half way through Y1 (previously private)
DC3, boy, has been there since the beginning

I'm concerned, not just for my DC but for all the other DC that may be able to achieve more. Nothing is being flagged up for my DC and he'll pass through the system as a 'success'.

Should I speak to the teacher?

Gosh, that's a depressing post.

Not sure I understand? Surely it depends mainly on whether your third child is capable of working at level 3?

Are you concerned that your dc is not making progress?

I agree, that is rather depressing.

I don't think you can expect a child to achieve the same level just because their siblings did, with the right support, they'll achieve what they're capable of.

The school should (and probably are) supporting higher achievers anyway, but if you want to help him at home I'm sure no-one will stop you.

Just for info too (just looked up in my bundle of papers) only 14-15% of children nationally tend to achieve Level 3 or over in KS1 writing each year, so don't be too disappointed if he doesn't make it.

sittinginthesun, yes, I am very concerned that he is not making progress and I can see no reason why he shouldn't be. I am a governor at the school and it has been assessed as outstanding under the new criteria.

lijkk, would you care to elaborate on what exactly is depressing about it?

I may be wrong, but it seems to me that your concern is that the state school is just letting your youngest coast when he could be doing much better than he is.

What you haven't clarified is whether or not you think it is a problem with the school generally, or is it just a problem with your youngest DC. Again, I may be reading too much into this, but I am wondering if what you are trying to say is that your DC2 went in to the school with a reasonable ability, and consequently continued working at that level. Do you think the problem would have been the same for your DC2 if he had started in reception at the school?

If you think the school might listen, then it might be worth talking to them. If you don't think the school will do anything, then I would just set about trying to work on the issue at home.

TwoLeftSocks, he will make it but not because of the school. He is, I'm pretty sure, capable of it, although I'm pretty certain there is not enough exposure/practice at school.

Have just called and requested a copy of the literacy policy.

Any teachers etc from schools where DC excel in writing (there can't be many looking at the stats), it would be very useful to have a look at your literacy policy.

allyfe, I do thing the problem would have been the same for DC2, yes.

The teacher recently moved DC3 up to the top maths group after he asked to join it (nothing to do with me) and she 'confessed' that she had obviously under estimated his ability as he is flying at maths now - he'll probably get the level 3 there.

Pickledsiblings I think that you should talk to the school then. If your DS has corrected his Maths level for them (and good on him for doing it), then I think you can use that as support for your case, and basically say that you think he could do with being challenged further in other areas. As a Governor, perhaps you could try and raise it as a general issue because I'm sure there are other parents who feel like you (and here I'm asking because I wish my school governors would do that

It is really depressing, but on the reading front, lots of parents I have talked to have said their DCs schools don't seem to know what level their children are at.

He is reading stage 8 at the moment although his reading age was assessed as being +3 years (I think). I am sure he is capable of reading at a higher level but happy enough for him to practise easier stuff to make sure there are no gaps.

It's the writing that is the main issue. I haven't done that much with him at home apart from making sure he had the right pencil grip in YR. His writing is pretty poor but his teacher said that there's nothing to worry about as his spelling age is +2 years. They just don't seem to be doing enough of it at school to allow for improvement iykwim.

It reads like a dig at (huge snobbery against) all state schools;
It reads like you're not treating your son as an individual;
It sounds like you place great importance on SATs results;
It sounds so negative.

I guess you really would prefer to have your kids still in previous school and that's still painful?

If you have concerns, you need to speak to the teacher. But you must remember that he is an individual, with his own strengths and weaknesses.

I think it is worrying that you have mentioned the other schools your dc attended in your OP. If your school is "outstanding" (and don't even get me started on this subject!) then I presume it's progress levels are fine. What are the level 3's like generally?

lijkk, I thought those may have been your concerns.

No snobbery against state schools, fantastic school with a dedicated staff and inspirational head teacher. I've been a Gov. there for 5 years.

I treat all my children as individuals but can see no reason why DC3 shouldn't be able to do what his sister could at this age if given time to practice. I am very confident that I will be able to help him to improve but I am worried about the other children who may be capable of similar.

SATs results in KS1 are very important in terms of a schools accountability. Target setting and in-class setting will all mean that he will continue to underachieve ad infinitum.

Surely the only way for a DC to get better at writing is to do it. I just don't think they do enough. Those that can write well (because they've been taught at home?) continue to write at length when given the opportunity and those that don't continue not to.

The schools worst levels are for boys writing and the usual 'oh you know what boys are like, they can't sit still long enough…' etc gets wheeled out. Both my boys are happy to write and will always have a go if you sit them down with a pencil and paper. I just don't think the school are doing this enough.

The school spends a lot of time developing soft skills that my DC have in abundance.

A friend of mine who is also a teacher commented that she had given up on her 'outstanding' primary school identifying her children's actual abilities. She said she had decided that the school's primary role would be 'soft' skills, and that she would have to do all of the actual education challenging. Sad but true. Although, I do think that as parents, our expectations are insanely high. When I was a child, parents did just let their children go to school, and didn't worry if they weren't achieving what they might. Just to clarify, I am (at the moment) one of the new style parents, rather than one of the have-total-faith-in-the-school ones.

Every year since I have been a governor the school has had a push on writing and things haven't improved. Part of this year's push is holding some writing competitions; parents get a note home about what their DC should write and then they send in their entries (or not!). Please tell me I am not alone in thinking that that is not good enough.

They do bits and pieces of writing during the day but when I looked through DC3 school work at the last open book afternoon, half a terms writing must have equated to about a page max.

Most of the misplaced effort seems to be in motivating the DC to write rather than working on writing skills.

Why does it matter what his SATS level is? As long as he is being challenged and is progressing then it doesn't matter one bit. I did Year 2 SATs myself. Do you know how many people have asked me what I got?!

I've also spent a long time being compared to my siblings. It isn't fun. You need to stop comparing your son before he picks up on it. My brother and sister both did very well at school (ie went to Oxford) and all I could ever do was match their achievements, which no-one would have been impressed by, or not do as well. Having that pressure on me all of the time was hard work and did not motivate me to work hard.

Sadly it is very unusual for any child in KS1 to receive a L3 these days. This is because between Yr2 and Yr6 the school need to show that each and every child has made 2 full levels of progress in order to be classed as an outstanding school. For this reason most schools try to cap KS1 levels at L2A (even if they believe a child is achieving more) as it easier to show OFSTED the progress needed to achieve outstanding. X

juniper9, you are missing the point. It matters because he will not get what he is capable of. Why should this not concern me. I don't want to have to do the work with him at home but I will if school don't. There is a bigger picture here about other people's children that may be capable of more.

He is not being challenged and he is not progressing at least not in my eyes and not enough. I told him recently that there is an actual right and accepted way to spell words - this was news to him, he thought that as long as it was phonically plausible it was OK.

MaxMummy2012- my school obviously missed that memo. I had about 15 children come to me as level 3 readers last year, about 15 in maths and about 12 in writing.

MaxsMummy, I wouldn't mind whatsoever if they capped his level, just as long as he could do the work. I have spent some time this morning looking at the exemplar material for L3 and going at his current rate it will probably be the end of Y3 before DS2 gets there.

I will work with him and he will improve, of this I am very confident but I am also very cross that this will only happen if I make it - what about the other DC that could be doing so much better in their writing.

Perhaps I should volunteer to go in and do some writing with them!!!

Pickledsiblings- my point is that levels are pointless and worthless. If he is not progressing then that is a concern, but whether he is recorded as a 2A or 3C is really of no relevance. It would take an appalling teacher to cap his learning simply because, on paper, he is a 2A not a 3C.

juniper9, I read on a thread in the TES this morning the case where a teacher said they were required by their borough to cap at 2a.

I don't give a s* about his level, I just care about the fact that his writing is appalling and the school think it's fine!

He will progress but all too slowly for my liking. You see, unlike many other parents I have a really useful gauge of what my DC at this age are capable of, but failing that, there is exemplar material out there.