All this angst about summer borns. Can someone tell me why we don't just go over to the Scottish admission system?

[Worriedthistimearound]

On the other thread there seems to be lots of people saying its not ideal but what can you do.
Well, maybe someone can tell me why we don't move over to what seems to me like a far more sensible system. DH is Scottish and we know the parents with children in the system and there is nowhere near the same level of anxiety up there.

Basically, it would seem that the cut off is the end of February rather than the end of August for children starting that autumn (well aug in Scotland) therefore, the youngest child starting school in that year group would be at least 4.5 as they turned 4 no later than end of feb. unlike here where a child could theoretically turn 4 on the 31/8 and start school the next day.

I know parents have more choice to defer up there too but that aside the timings seem so much more sensible. I also know that in England the child doesn't legally need to start until the term after they turn 5 but that's no solution if your child misses a whole year if reception.

So, what's stopping us saying ok, for 2017 admissions we're moving over to this new system so that all children will be more ready for school?

That and apparently all Scottish kids are entitled to a state preschool place if they want it.
Fat chance of that down here.
:(

A Scottish class can have a wide spread of ages, !5 months in my child's year.

Deferral is dependant on local authority area in my experience, and also how clued up parents are. In the area I live now it's a lot more common and often I've seen that it's children from less advantaged homes who don't defer and end up as the youngest in their year.

Summer-borns struggling becomes winter-borns struggling.

Do you know, I think part of the problem is that parents in England are much more angst-y about primary school in general than parents in Scotland. (I know, I know - broad generalisation there so please don't flame me!) There seems to be more problems with getting your child into your local or chosen school, problems with accessibility to pre-school, problems with summer-born children etc etc etc... I think the fact that here in Scotland you get into your local school and as has been mentioned above you are guaranteed a minimum of a year and a term of pre-school, with the possibility of 2 full years depending on your birthday makes a big difference in how people feel about schools in general. No?

I think the fact that here in Scotland you get into your local school

Scotland's birthrate is starting to rise again, albeit from a very low base. It's easy to guarantee things when there are fewer children as each year goes by, but let's see what happens as the numbers rise. A lot of the problem in England is that the birthrate was in savage decline, pretty much monotonically from 1964 to 1999, but has now started to rise again. More were born last year than in any year since 1972. Scotland's rise didn't start until about 2006, but is happening along similar lines.

Free clue to Labour: it's not racist to suggest that if you're going to have an open-door immigration policy, which will be taken up disproportionately by younger people of child-bearing age, then building some schools might not be a bad idea.

I think it helps that in Scotland the youngest your child would start is four and a half rather than just four.

This was a big consideration in our moving to Scotland from London. I couldn't bear the angst about not getting into any schools, putting four down on the form etc. my DS is January ao now we are up here he is one of the youngest and I will defer him. He is entitled to a year of preschool but will have two years in private nursery instead. The whole system is so easy.

Yes friday even in popular schools it's been a lot easier to move and find a school place than what I hear of especially in London area.

I am so glad we had the option to defer DS, he really wasn't ready. DD on the other hand I won't have defer as she was ready for school at about 3!!

In general there seems to be a lot less obsession with schools in Scotland than in England.

Kids just go to their local school - there isn't all this anxiety of "getting into first choice schools" and appeals etc.

Don't know why it seems to work up here but it does.

My 2 DC went to local primary and secondary and did very well at them

Whether the education "works" in Scotland is a moot point. We've pulled out of international comparison testing I think? The new exams seem poorly implemented, and in my local High School they will be doing only 6 subjects in S4. I'm not that impressed right now.

To be honest the Curriculum for Excellence is a recipe for disaster. I am glad my DC are finished school as nobody seems to know how to implement it in secondary.

In primary we have a load of woolly "I can" statements with no real guidance on how to achieve these.

In 10 years' time they will realise it was all a heap of poo, which most teachers could have told them if they actually bothered to ask the people who are tasked with implementing this nonsense.

Your kids are lucky to be out of it imo.

So no moving up here London! The grass is never greener...

Scottish education used to rated amongst the best in the world, but not any more.

I'm lucky to teach in an excellent school, but even the head admits she is fed up being asked to implement new initiatives that she doesn't believe in.

Thousands of pounds are being spent by cash-strapped councils buying in rubbish to try and reinvent the wheel.

Apologies tiggy - that wasn't meant as a criticism of parents in England at all - sorry if it read that way It was just an observation of how I see things to be - definitely understandable - I think if I was in England I would be the same!

The Scottish system certainly has its plusses (when we moved house last year we knew our kids were guaranteed places in the school at the top of the street and future children would be too), but yes, it definitely has its minuses too (and in my opinion CfE is one of them!)

Euphemia the Curriculum for Excellence isn't actually a curriculum - Scotland doesn't have a national curriculum like England does - basically teachers can teach what they like as long as their children become "successful learners", "confident individuals", "responsible citizens" and "effective contributors". (nice and wishy-washy!)

There are "I can" statements as targets within each stage (early years is nursery - end of P1, 1st is P2-P4 etc...). For instance - a literacy task in early years might be looking to show that "I can... use capital letters, or use finger spaces, or choose the right words" (etc...) How a child gets to that point however is up to the teacher to decide.

There are some real positives to this - it gives children the opportunity for a broader education and allows teachers to work to their strengths, BUT - it also opens up the opportunity for children to have missed big things and for differences between the way different teachers teach to cause problems. (as we're seeing this year between my daughter's P1 & P2 teachers)

The good stuff in CfE is what all good teachers were doing anyway (working across and linking subjects etc...), but most of it is guff - so wishy washy and no-one really knows how it's all supposed to work. Even with writing reports where the children are not graded (oh no! That might upset someone and we couldn't have that!) but marked as "developing, consolidating or secure", there is no clear guidance as to where a child should be to achieve one of these statements so every teacher/school interprets it differently

Sorry - that will have come across as a really patronising post I thought you were asking because you were in England and didn't understand the Scottish system. Apologies. (my views remain the same though!)

"Scotland doesn't have a national curriculum like England does - basically teachers can teach what they like as long as their children become "successful learners", "confident individuals", "responsible citizens" and "effective contributors"."

To be fair - that's always been the case, it's just that what they were working towards used to be actual outcomes instead of just vague ideas. ( I know they have outcomes, but some of them are just ridiculous)

Worriedthistimearound there is nothing in EYFS that says your child needs to be taught Letters & Sounds in nursery or reception

It all depends on your school and authority.

Thanks homework - you have saved me answering euphemia as I would have said almost exactly the same.

We will have a nation of confident individuals who have no idea how to carry out tasks on their own or complete written work as everything has to be done actively in groups

"How a child gets to that point however is up to the teacher to decide." which is the same as in England homework