Has this school trip broke any regulations/laws?

[emma16]

I would appreciate some help here please, my 5 year old daughter went on a trip with 2 other classes from her school on Friday to a wood which I was initially concerned about as we go there ourselves on a Sunday etc for walks & have never seen any facilities there.
I raised my concerns with her teacher the week before they were due to go, to which she hardly knew anything of the trip & when i arrived at home time another teacher i know told me that she'd been there & there were facilities, and 'as if' they'd take 3 classes of kids somewhere where there wasnt!
I wasn't pretty hot about this trip seeing as they've waited until the middle of November to do it, and as any genuinely concerned parent, I was worried about how cold my daughter would be seeing as they were leaving just after 9am & not returning to school until 3.15pm.

Off she went anyway, but when my husband picked her up from the woods car park the first thing she said to him was 'im so thirst daddy & my head really hurts'. He brought her home & we found out that they had not taken their water bottle's with them & she'd had nothing to drink whatsoever all day, despite being active for 5 hours walking & doing activities.
We also found out that there were no toilets provided & her & 3 of her friends were taken by some assistant she doesn't know to wee behind a tree out in a public wood!!!
She also told us, when questioned by us, they never went in any buildings & were outside all day. They'd sat on little stools under a sheet to eat their pack lunchs.

Now some of you on here will think i'm over reacting no doubt & appreciate it if all you want to say is a snide comment about my over bearing parenting, but, in my opinion i feel they have done wrong.
I have made several enquiries with other people & as far as they know, there are no facilities whatsoever up at this wood, which my husband & I are going to visit this morning to find the country ranger & ask him himself.

If there aren't this means that no risk assessment could have been carried out, those teachers lied to my face after voicing my concerns, they let my daughter go without any fluids for over 5 hours despite being active & came home ill & with a headache, they let some stranger to her pull her pants down in a public wood to wee, and they gave them no form of shelter/heating for even a short period of time just to warm them up before going back out again.
Is any of this ok, does anyone with some knowledge actually know? From a parents point of view there's all sorts wrong with it. If there were facilities why did they choose not to use them?

Coming from the era where pupils were pushed into pools to encourage them to swim I do see a similar attitude. The attitude that being uncomfortable is somehow good for you.

It doesnt matter whether they were in reception or year one. IMO at the age of 5 they were too young for a day spent in the woods without more facilities and preparation.

erm noooooooo! there was no changing room
We have to complete a risk assessment for the LEA prior to taking children out of school which the wardens provided but didn't include getting soaked from head to toe but I will next time.

Worrysigh I have news for you: things have moved on in schools. We no longer throw kids into swimming pools, nor do cane them for that matter.
The vast, vast majority of teachers nowadays are competent, professional, caring and well-organised people who are passionate about taking good care of our children, whether we're in the classroom or out and about. In fact, I take significantly more care of other people's children than I do of my own. You do the profession a great disservice by the way you doubt us.

Worry- then don't sign consent forms with your dd then.

There were most likely regular breaks, and although out all day there would not been six hours of pure walking. More likely two or three with stops in between and an joys/hour and a half for lunch plus stopping to look at things, sit on logs and rocks.

The crabs were never allowed unsupervised access to the children although the sea weed in plain sight of everyone!

My ds1 has gone on an all day trip to the woods with school at this time of year, before. He loved it. He was 7, though, not 5, so a more manageable age and capable of doing more interesting things, tbh. School did make clear how they wanted packed lunch to be brought in, though, as sometimes they want little backpacks and sometimes they want everything to be disposable.

All trips carry risks and schools have been known to get things wrong before, but the vast majority of trips go off without serious mishaps and most kids come back happy, having enjoyed a day away from the school building. If my ds had come back thirsty and with a headache, I would have made a mental note to take action to avoid this happening next time around, but would not have considered this a serious failing on the school's part. As for peeing behind a tree, ds being a boy would relish the opportunity. It's not so fun for girls, obviously! I think it would be a most unusual teacher who would willingly spend all day in a wood without toilet facilities with 90 five year olds in tow.

:o

We go on a trip to Skegness (Y2). Last year one little girls parents wouldn't let her paddle in case she got cold.

As clam said on the earlier thread, on AIBU, the OP said there were toilets but likely to be in a glorified shed

This November has been pretty mild.

After reading what the child was wearing, I suspect she was so thirsty due to running about all day in clothes that would do for -5 degrees.

I organise trips the moment, which get good feedback. One sort is at a pond and 2hours away from a toilet and the other involves a walk where I expect we are 2 hours without a toilet. There are no convenient toilets in that time. They have to go behind a tree if they can't wait.

Though the internet can be a useful sounding board, I'd have been more inclined to talk to other parents about whether their children enjoyed the trip, and what they'd said about it.

My own experience is that schools are pretty clear in advance - in writing - about what a trip will be involved. They are also helpful if parents have any queries before or after the consent forms has been signed.

If my child seemed unwell and/or unhappy after a trip, I'd think the easiest thing would be to make time to see a teacher to ask for clarification about:-

1. provision of additional drinking water, for any child who had omitted to take a drink as part of their packed lunch
2. whether there were any toilet/handwashing facilities at the site. (If not, what arrangements had been put in place to ensure that adequate hygiene was observed.)

If I wasn't 100% happy about the answers received, I might put any concerns I had in writing and ask for a formal reply.

Most schools plan trips very carefully and well. If something goes slightly wrong, again a good school will say what hadn't been foreseen and what improved arrangements will be made on future occasions.

We have hand gel available because obviously there is nowhere to wash hands either. We risk assess. Anyone can see the risk assessment.

we had a 6 page risk assessment for our trip to the beach
was it worth it? yes, and can't wait to do it again

And you know what its like - once one child goes, they all need it.

On said trip to Skegness, on the first year the class teacher said they could go, cue me and another parent helper shuffling children up and down the coach for over an hour.

Next year a different teacher said no loo trips until we arrived. No one went and no accidents (except the 10 children who were travel sick!)

If op had such reservations in advance of the trip; she could have tried a lot harder to make her preparations bomb proof, couldn't she? like packing a bloody drink in the lunch box

On a Woodland Trust trip I went on a year or two back (granted, with 9 year olds) the rangers were terribly particular about hygiene, and we had clear instructions that any snacks had to be "wrapped" and couldn't be eaten with bare hands if they'd touched the river water (which was probably cleaner at that point in its journey to the sea than what comes out of the tap) unless they'd used the hand sanitiser and so forth.

I therefore think it's highly unlikely that any of the OP's fears have any grounding.

You really have been trying to find a problem with this trip, first it was going to be too cold and now the poor little darling has had to piss in the woods.
Why didn't you put a drink in her lunch box ?
Your child is safe and well, get over yourself or your child is in for a hell of a life !

Clam sadly my experience of my DCs' schools in the UK has shown only intermittent evidence of the passion and professionalism you describe. In a good school poor practice wont be tolerated and the teacher will be moved on. Unfortunately they do seem to gravitate towards the badly managed schools resulting in pools of poor practice.

Thankfully my DCs are starting to come out of secondary education now.

It is right for parents to express concerns if they have them. Parents should not be ridiculed for this.

If the school can, hand on heart, say that there were perfectly adequate toilet, shelter and drinking water facilities and that the OP's DD was imagining things then fair enough. But if not then the school should look again at how it arranges such trips.

Wonder if Op managed to track down the Park ranger in the end....Do hope she didnt call his 'facilities' a glorified shack....

insancerre - I'm glad to hear the 6-page risk assessment was worth it and you can't wait to do it again. How was the trip to the beach?

We take out children on bushcraft survival worrysigh and what the OP describes sounds luxurious ... the worms and rice wasn't a joke ...they ca,e back for seconds

River water - Leptospirosis (Weil's Disease). Rare but preventable by good hygiene habits around river banks.

wonderful, thanks
we got the train there, we walked from the nursery to the station, then back again
the children were so well behaved, we had lots of lovely comments from members of the public about our fantastic children
we had biscuits and water on the beach and lunch in a local cafe

Surely you would pack a drink in the lunchbox to drink at lunchtime. I certainly wouldn't expect them all to carry water bottles about all day. Surely in November 5 year olds can go without water for a couple of hours. I don't recall carrying water bottle for DS when we used to go out, he had his drink with his picnic. Obviously he had drinks in the hot weather but this was November FFS.
They would have all ate their lunch at some stage and I guess that was when there was the opportunity to use the toilet.