Reception age child: really worried and not sure what to do? Long, sorry

[SquigletPie]

I am feeling really confused and worried at the moment about my 4 year daughter's schooling. There are so many aspects but I will try to keep it short.

A number of incidents with school staff has led to a loss of faith in her school's abilities to look after and development each child to their full potential.

Whilst my daughter moved from her pre-school to primary with a large number of children she knew, having watched her in class and at after school events she seems unable to engage with them. She will perhaps say a few words and always says hello but then plays on her own beside them rather than with them. This results sometimes in a group of girls who she knows chasing around and playing together while she stands around on her own.

At an after school event I repeatedly encouraged her to go and dance, play with named friends but each time she just wandered about on her own. A few minutes later she would come back to me. It's just the same at every birthday party she goes to.

The school don't see it as something to worry about but if the other children are able to engage with each other and play together surely she should be able to join in?

From an academic perspective she seems to be far behind the stages some other seem to be here on mumsnet. She has barely been taught 10 letters/sounds since starting in Sept and doesn't seem to be doing any number work other than counting to 10! Given she can already count up to 30 easily and 100 with assistance with the first multiple of 10 e.g 40, 50 60 etc this seems ludicrous.

Also about 2 weeks ago she started to mention playing with an older girl (6) and her friend during breaks. Yesterday I finally saw the girl and her friends but having seen them interacting with my daughter I felt quite worried. It seemed more that they were laughing at her expense because she is younger and unable to actively join in and play with them. I am worried this could turn into bullying.

I am thinking that she may be better suited to either a smaller school or an independent school where she will receive more attention and encouragement. There are 30 children in her current class.

I literally could not sleep last night for worrying about her.

Sorry you are upset.

The first action is perhaps to have an appointment with the teacher - a sit down private appt and tell her exactly what your fears are, it could be that as you see a snapshot of your daughters school life, this is not an accurate reflection of what happens.

After that discussion you may be in a better position to evidence what if anything needs to be done.

Hope that makes some sort of sense

You say her teacher isn't worried, but have you had a one-to-one chat with her/him and voiced your concerns? I would be worried too, if my DC was having these rather negative interactions with peers. I know it's not uncommon in bigger schools for some DC to get left out at play time and for the playground staff to be slow to encourage stragglers to join in. I would be looking for some action from the school on this TBH. Ask them how they encourage quieter DC to engage with their peers and whether they have structured games at play time to encourage everyone to play together.

She's only been there a short time, so things may improve as she settles in and all the DC get to know each other better, but it sounds like she needs some extra help socially. If the school is unwilling or unable to help then, yes, I would start looking at other schools where you think she might fit in better.

How did she play when at her preschool? Did she mix well with the others then? Or was she the same?

It's difficult to tell from your op what you expect the school to do here. You, yourself have actively tried to get your dd to interact with others and she chooses not to.

The fact that your dd doesn't join in much will be part of her personality and not a negative thing. I expect she likes to observe and take her time before being confident enough to join in. That's ok. Not everyone is a social butterfly. She will probably grow up to be an independent thinker and a reliable friend.

You could chat with the teacher if you think she is not learning quickly enough but I think it would be best to let her have a settling in period, rather than try to push her on.

She will develop at her own rate and the best you can do to support her is to accept her as she is and let her know that you love her the way she is. Confidence will come with time.

Make an appointment with the teacher.

However, you must NOT compare your child to others; particularly at this age. Children have different developmental stages and how fast they go through them is at different rates. The type of play you describe is a stage that is normal for that age.

You do not say when she was born. But, even a few months difference in age can mean they are in different stages.

So, please do not panic.

As a previous poster has said, losing faith in a school at this stage over what you have said is panicking.

Thanks everyone.

She was a little better at pre-school but I think that was down to staff to child ratio and hence staff encouraging her to join in and facilitating that. There are 15 other children from her pre-school at her primary school so I am surprised that she seems to be struggling to continue those relationships.

Juneau, unfortunately part of our lose of faith in the school staff is due to the fact the acting head personally assured me prior to her starting school they were experienced in dealing with the younger less confident children in Reception - she only turned 4 at the end of August. Sadly, I haven't seen much evidence of that support.

We didn't want her to go fulltime until after Xmas and the acting head assured me that was fine but it quite turn out to fine at all and she is going 5 full days. During the repeated communications on this issue we were told littleun was doing fine and ultimately we had to follow the line the teacher/school took....

I need support and help from the school on how to encourage and develop her social skills as I simply don't have the experience or knowhow.

The class size is the biggest it's been in many years apparently -last year 21, this year 30 - and I think the teacher is too inexperienced to look after the needs of all the children.

I do think it's a good idea for me to ask her teacher what they do to encourage her to engage with her peers and how playtimes are structured. A good starting point, thanks.

i would echo the message that she probably takes her time and will do this at her own pace.
she is very young with it.
it must be overwhelming for these little ones and tiring.
i would deffo ask the teacher or classroom assistant to steer her towards her peers at play time.
my dd played well with the quieter boys at this age and had little interest in girl politics

But she is doing fine. What is it that you want the school to do? Encourage her to join in more, or what? Your posts are a bit vague, I'm not clear what it is you expect. Is your dd unhappy at school?

Sorry your expectations of the school are unrealistic.

You need to meet with the teacher regarding your dds social skills and ask what they think and how she is doing in class time.

Teaching wise reception is all about learning through play not hot housing them to read and write! My very academic high flying 10 year old didn't learn to read until the end of year 1 - it's no big deal at all, the social integration etc. is far far more important at this stage.

I have a child with some social difficulties. At 4yo he would do similar things than your dd.

I would say:
1- go and have a chat with the teacher. Tell her what you have seen on the playground and b'day parties and ask her if she has noticed similar things. A good teacher will do and will be able to encourage friendships but won't be able to force them iyswim. My ds teacher encouraged other boys to include him whilst they were playing football but she couldn't force them to be friend with him.
2- remember she is still young and still adapting to a different environment. If she is happy to make relationships outside the school, with cousins for example or one if your friends child, then I would really put that down to the fact she is still feeling uncomfortable by the whole art up rather than being a big issue than needs strong support.
3- have some of her friends from school round for tea so they can forge a relationship wo the pressure if other children etc around.
4- academically, again have a word with the teacher on her progress and ask how you can help. Again a good teacher will tell you clearly 'you can do X and Y at home' and give you the material if need be. Ask what is he level and where she expects the average child to be but again remember that she is young and struggling with literacy at this stage doesn't mean she will always struggle. She might just have her 'switch moment' later on in Y1and catch up with everyone then.
5- in maths though, remember they will be doing a lot more stuff than just counting that you won't see but again you can ask the teacher how she is doing and ask to see her workbooks.

I wish you luck. There us nothing worse than thinking your dc is struggling at that age because it's impossible to know if it's just a development issue, the school being not so good or an issue with the child struggling.
I would start with the assumption that school us ok and she needs to mature a bit whilst engaging with the teacher to try and improve things itswim

It does sound like you want more cosseting then she can easily get in the state system. But is she actually unhappy in herself, coz doesn't sound like it.

Btw your expectations aren't unreasonable at all. Whilst each child mature at a different speed, it doesn't mean you should just forget about the ones who struggle until they are in Y2. What it means us that you don't have to panic about it.

Lljk what makes you think
From the OP that this little girl isn't unhappy?

I should add academically, what OP's child is being taught like what all mine did in reception at this point. So normal practice ime.

What makes you think child is unhappy, TIMT? Lots of children are content playing on their own. Lots of children are shy at parties or in groups or don't readily join in, but that doesn't mean they are unhappy.

Sorry if I haven't read carefully. I haven't read the parts where OP said child was crying & begging not to go in every morning. Where child kicked off in class and refused to cooperate with adults. Where the staff had pulled OP aside to say child not settling.

I would ask does your DD seem unhappy with school..She may not join in....Does she have any friend..Maybe she would do better with a 1-1 situation and invite them home for tea...

It is a big adaption from preschool to reception...The expectations of the children behaviour wise steps up every year.she is still very young to be at school I do remember when my son started school between the two classes there were 18 that were july/August birthday...they did take a lot longer to settle in.

I would make an appointment with the teacher voice your concerns..she may see many of the younger ones behaving similar to your own but you may be looking at the others... I know when I spoke to my sons teacher about he said he wasn't playing with anyone..she watched him and he was it was one boy he wanted to play with that wasn't playing with him

An August baby is nearly a year younger than some of their classmates. That's a huge difference when you're in Reception, and it will generally show. Talk with the teachers about your concerns.

It might also be an idea to have her hearing tested.

My ds behaves like this with other children, but he is not unhappy. He is slightly more sociable now that he is in year 2, but not a lot to be honest. It is something that we work on a bit but he is happy in his own company and likes deciding what he plays by himself. There are plenty of other children like this, a minority yes, but it is common. Not all adults are sociable, popular, need other people's company etc.

The academic content sounds ok for reception. I have experienced winter born and summer born dc in reception and at our school at least the older ones are pushed along quicker than the younger ones, which I found frustrating. I think you should go in and have a chat, most schools have a parent's evening around now though?

It seems a mixed experience for her as whilst she does occasionally say she doesn't want to go she seems happy enough when I leave. But, she is often quite sad and uncommunicative when I pick her up at the end of the day.

People have asked what do I expect from the school. I suppose I expect them to help her develop the skills needed to play with others maybe through structured play, role playing etc rather than leaving her on her own.

Academically I didn't think she was behind the others but rather the whole class seems to be behind other schools. I have read about sight reading, blended sounds etc whereas I thought all her class had been taught was just the handful of letters/sounds given in her work book. I need to check as maybe she is behind the others who have moved onto blended sounds etc?

Thank you 'Thisismetoo' for understanding I don't want to ignore her difficulties until it has become a real problem.

A little help could make all the difference but I don't know how to help her and yes I do expect the school to know how to help. Afterall, the acting head did tell me the support would be there.............

She is incredibly young for the year. You can't expect her yet to be at the stage that many others are. But did she join in voluntarily at nursery? Schools do leave you more to yourself.

And it is early in the term.

That said, you could be describing Ds, not a summer child, and I was fobbed off. Have word with the teacher and keep an eye on her.

Many children go through the stage of parallel play slower than others which while normal, it can be hard if their peers are all interacting. Your daughter is one of the youngest and this may well be the situation.

I am surprised that the school aren't making a bit more effort. My DD moved school when we got a waiting list place 2 weeks into term and I was so impressed how they found her a friend for the first day, and how when I dropped her at breakfast club the next morning and was crying a group of the older girls came over to hug her and take her off to play.

I would ask what they are doing along these lines - or perhaps they could 'organise' a few group games at playtime.

On the academics, I really wouldn't worry.

My DD is in Reception at one of the top state primaries in London (top 1% in the UK) where despite a very challenging intake (over 50% FSM, over 70% EAL) they achieve 20% L6 in Maths and just under that in English.

We had the first sheet about phonics home on Friday this week. They're only doing numbers up to 10 and everything is done through play. She's been given her first reading book - but isn't expected to actually read it yet, just have a go.

I would be worried if they were concentrating on rushing them too fast at this age. Playing and social skills are far more important.

Hi OP, I would ask her teachers what she is like when you aren't there - she may act differently then? I am intrigued how you have watched her in class - I have barely seen inside the classroom!

And pyrrah yay you got the place so quickly!

Squiglet - your post really rang some bells with me. Same thing has been happening with my DC. I've been very concerned and just knew something was wrong. Despite repeated assurances from teachers that all was fine, it turns out that that was not the case. Don't want to say more in case I out myself, but I just want to say follow your instincts! You know your DD best and there is something going on. First, meet the teacher and take it from there, but don't stop till you work it out.

ime if you have no trust in your child's school it makes it impossible to leave them there.

I don't really know what to say without it turning into a rant but I feel for you and hope you can get the answers you need.

a class of 30 is perfectly normal, my daughter last year had a class of 32 in reception because of appeals and my daughter this year is in a class of 30.

socially - not unusual at this age, my daughter clings terribly at parties, as did her older sister (youngest 4 in R, eldest just turned 6 in Yr1) but after about 4 parties in reception the eldest just suddenly seemed to gain in confidence. However at parents evening it turns out youngest whilst being terribly shy if we are around is confident in the classroom, standing up in front of the class etc.

counting to 10 - normal, that is what they do for a large part of reception. DD1 and DD2 both very good with numbers and could do 'proper' maths before starting but reception isn't about that. It is about confidence, playing, sharing, making sure they have a completely solid foundation in phonics, numbers etc. do they see numbers in relation to actual objects and so on.

I am sure she will have done quite a few phonic sounds this term, they may be doing it in such a way she isn't aware she is learning them. It depends how they are teaching them, some schools teach all the phonic sounds then move on to blending and then start sending home books (can be Jan ish by then) others will teach a small number of sounds and immediately start on blending those sounds. some send home wordless books very early, some go straight to books with words, some don't do books for a while.

I bit my tongue for a lot of reception, my daughter was way beyond any academic work they did last year, she finished the year with her academic achievements being things she could do when she started but she did learn so many other things and this year will hopefully get the chance to move forwards. My other daughter can already pretty much meet the academic targets for the end of EYFS but she isn't as confident in many situations and I think the year will do her a lot of good before starting proper academic work next year.

I am not trying to say your concerns are unnecessary as only you know your child and the school but I would ignore the academic ones for the moment as it is too soon to be worrying about those, they haven't even done half a term yet. Concentrate on friends and confidence, I would ask the teacher specifically about those and maybe try to set up some playdates.

SquigletPie, unfortunately my experience is that schools are rarely able to tell you to do to support your child when they struggle.

In the whole of primary school, I met one very good teacher who was very happy to support me and give me pointers as to what to do with ds. We were really working as a team (eg she was giving me specific work to do with ds and I could tell her what sort of issues I had noticed. She would check and confirm that yes there was an issue with X and work on it with him). Others have been good as willing to engage with me and others just brushed any issues as 'age related' or 'still being within the expectations'.

I would say you are right to want to follow that. My ds never 'complained' or 'made a fuss' when I left him at school. He just got on with it the best he could. It doesn't mean he wasn't struggling. Different children react in different ways. His frustration and difficulties came out at home when he just completely 'lost it' several times a day. Never at school where he always has been described as 'quiet as a mouse'.

It doesn't mean that your dd does have some issues though. Just that yes it is a good idea to keep an eye on it and to try and support her. But not necessary to panic about it.