11+tips

[Amythesianwaterfall]

Dear mumsnetters,
A quick question but what would you say your top tips are for prepraring your dc for the 11+?
Our school is preparing an open evening for parents and any suggestions would be very welcome! Thank you:)

Retropear Chin up, lass! Mn's always a bit bananas at the merest whiff of the 11+! For what it's worth, I think time spent 1 to 1 with your child, doing whatever, is never, ever wasted. I also think that children benefit enormously from a little 1 to 1 time with regard to academic stuff: it is just so hard in a class of 30. So, what you are doing is great - and I also know how hard it is carving out that time - so cheers to you.

zzz retropear's situation is extremely common. Many, even most, state schools won't be covering much of the ground before the end of year 6 - because it's year 6 work. They are following the NC! In Retropear's case, it sounds as though there are other issues, and Ofsted have "complained". I don't think Retropear need take that on, in addition to the 1 to 1 work.

Anyway, all this pales into insignificance when you consider the disadvantage of only having experienced a year (or less) as an English-language speaker ...

Or the extraordinary, invisible, advantage of coming from a home where reading (in English) is a common pursuit.

Back to OP:

Times table practise; word games ... there are some very good ones on the elevenplusexams website. There's even one where you can make cards and play "pairs" with some of the high-frequency 11+ words and their looky-likies. I was very impressed by the tutor who donated that one to the 11+ community.

Fwiw, my dd hasn't passed the 11+, but I spent some time looking at literacy and numeracy with her. I'm really glad I did it, and I think we both gained from the experience.

I don't know if some people are missing the point about 11+ and NC. When doing the 11+ in this area for 6 local partially selective schools including a grammar it is within 2 weeks of going into year 6. The exam is at the very least KS3 knowledge, therefore some NC has not been covered yet by the schools because they have another whole year to do that.

We have started giving DS tuition from the beginning of the school year, we can not afford private tuition so do the best we can. He has only just started year 5 so a lot of things he has not covered.

If we do not tutor and let things slide then he will be in a school that we feel may not be right for him (have looked at all the schools recently at open evenings)

We do not actually want him to go to the grammar, both his dad and me went to single sex schools and didn't like it ( but that's another thread)
But as there are several other schools that require the grades and unless you are living within 500 metres of the school the 11+ is the only way to get in. We both wish it were different but when you have 2500 children applying for 600 spaces it is competitive.

I highly recommend the 11 Plus exams site it's great to get all the information you need. Good luck

Sorry that should be KS2*

Most primary schools do not cover VR or NVR, so you do need to introduce these to your child before they sit the 11 plus.

Most 11 plus questions can be done by above average children. What separates those found selective to those who miss is timing. Children are expected to work through lots of questions in a short period of time. So in the months leading up to the exam (aka the summer holidays ) get your dc to work on speed using Bond books or similar.

But super selecive areas are v tricky. Even with prep, most dc will fail.

I think just looking after your own child's deficit is very poor.

Why?
Retropear is only responsible for her own child's learning. If the other 29 (or however many) parents of children in that class have concerns then they should do something themselves. Retropear cannot be held responsible for the school failing a whole class of children as she isn't the teacher.

With regard to the wider tutoring or not debate: the grammar schools in my neighbouring county actually sell practice papers and advise parents to help their children familiarise themselves with the style of questions. It isn't the same as tutoring, but it suggests that they are not expecting children to turn up and see reasoning questions for the first time in their lives, they are expecting them to do some preparation.

Seriously? Wow. Because no man is an island? Because she can? Because who else will?

Each parent is responsible for making the right decisions for his / her own child. If parent A can't be arsed to ensure his child gets a good education then why should parent B take on that responsibility. Obviously the school are ultimately responsibly for ensuring that each child is stretched and achieves as much as possible, but in reality all too often that doesn't happen and parents have to pick up the slack and pay for tutors / tutor themselves / do whatever is required to makes use that their child progresses at the appropriate rate.
I wasn't happy with my sons school and the ridiculously easy work that they insisted on giving him (ofsted also slammed the school when they carried out an inspection and identified that the brightest children were not adequately provided for). I took the school to task and got nowhere. I didn't sit around thinking about the other poor 29 children and what I should do to help them, I made arrangements for my own child to start at another school and took filling in his learning gaps as a task for myself. I wasn't prepared to waste another year or two attempting to fight a whole flawed school, meanwhile my child's education would be suffering.

What did you propose that I should have done? Tutored all 30 children myself? Took over running the school? Paid for all 30 to have catch up tuition? Opened my own free school? Paid for all 30 to attend a private school?
It's ridiculous to expect any parent to take responsibility for the education of a whole class unless the parent is a teacher within that school.

Oh I've moaned,I am that parent.I did write to the governors and we finally got a maths info evening(after moaning to the head and maths co-ordinator several times to no avail).

I won't bore you with my woes,it would be a record length post and bore you all to tears.Let's just say it's like banging your head against a brick wall,I did try and now my dc are towards the end I only have the head space and inclination to sort them out.

The thing is our local feeder school head came and told parents all the high Sats level kids would go into a special group on entry to secondary anyway.So regardless of grammar they have to make sure they can compete with the kids from all the other local primary schools who do push all their children anyway.

Either way they're stuffed if I don't do something with them.

I guess I am a bit sensitive re the subject as I can guarantee any thread re the 11+ within 10 posts will have posts saying tutoring is bad,unfair,pointless etc.

Well in an ideal world my dc would be in an Outstanding school or private school that did push all it's kids.Failing that I'd be able to afford one of these whizzy tutors their friends at private school go to on top of lessons in tiny classes,teaching within school to the 11+ etc. They're not so I'm simply going to do the best with what we've got.

LaQueen et al thanks for the supportive posts.Glad your dd got in.Out of interest did you have a normal summer holiday this summer just gone or did she have to study?Also did she do any mocks?

Personally I would write a letter of complaint to the HT, cc the LA. id want to know what THEY were going to do about it.

And what happens when you have tried all that and wasted a year fighting the system and nothing has changed? Do you let your child continue to bump along in an inadequate situation because you feel sorry for the children whose parents won't/ can't do anything to help their children? Or do you help your own child?
There are lots of inequalities among children and we can't go around trying to fix them all.
Christmas presents: do I ensure that I top up the Christmas stockings of all 30 children because it's not the children's fault that some get loads and others get very little?
Holidays: do I pay for all 30 children to have a week in Spain because it's not fair that some get a foreign holiday and others don't?
The list of inequalities is endless.

Exactly,I have written several times.

We were told to stop writing letters,to send e- mails instead and to remove our children if we didn't like it.

The head has also said as far as he is concerned they're still Outstanding. They're not they're Satisfactory.

When you're dealing with arrogance like that it is pointless.

Retropear, don't be under any illusion that an outstanding school would necessarily do any better - your DC may still be bringing home meaningless targets.

The Superselective that we are interested in is mainly populated with prep school kids that are coached in the 11+ for familiarisation and speed.

zzzzz, I think you were lucky in the approach that you took, your DD is obviously quick as well as 'clever'. My DS on the other hand is easy to teach in that he picks up new ideas really quickly and integrates them will into his bank of knowledge but he isn't quick at processing. He is one of those kids that LaQueen was talking about who would probably get 100% on VR if he had twice as long to do it.

On that note, I'd be interested in your thoughts LaQueen, and others, if my DS would be considered 'GS material' given his 'slow' processing speed. No one at school has ever noticed it btw, or if they have they've not commented on it. He is working at NC level 5.

Hi all:

fascinating twist to the discussion.

I think the reality my friends is that it is something of a postcode lottery - whether your child is at a good school that truly is good (maybe even outstanding) or at a school that just ticks boxes.

Our school sounds haunting familiar to Retropear and I am that parent as well Retropear and I know that also does your child no favours (at least our school seem adept at moving our children down tables after complaints).

Access to learning opportunity and the chance to cover all aspects of primary national curriculum in detail and to master those core skills is probably what all of us want.

I fear it isn't an equal playing field.

Michael Gove deciding to remove the homework requirement has meant that at our school at least, there's literally 20 minutes of homework a week. Kids at our school endlessly read Horrid Henry & Jaqueline Wilson. Friends with children at other schools read books that would be considered classic Children's literature and have work related to that reading. These children at other schools with regular homework (and challenging homework at that) have all oddly enough scored well on the 11+.

I'm sure there's no link of course.

I would always do everything I could to help my child, not leave them "bumping along" in a bad situation, and certainly I do LOTS of teaching at home, just not particularly 11+ focused.

But by your own standards you should be helping all of the children after school, inviting them all into your home for some extra academic help. By only helping your own child after school you are (in your words) 'only helping your own child's deficit which is very poor'.
Where is your own civil responsibility in only giving lessons to your own child after school, what about the poor children whose parents are unable to help them? Seems you don't have as much sense of civil responsibility as you lead yourself to believe.

What you originally said was:

I couldn't disagree more. ALL the children are being let down if they are not covering the NC and will be at a considerable disadvantage come year 7. I think just looking after your own child's deficit is very poor. I would complain and want to see remedial work for ALL the children who have been let down.

Which gave me the impression that you think Retropear should be more concerned with the school not meeting the needs of all the children at the school, instead of just her own. I still don't see why anybody should need to feel that they are responsible for 'fixing things' to benefit the whole class. The reasoning that you later gave: it isn't the children's fault if their parents can't be bothered /understand/ don't know, isn't really the problem of the parent who can be bothered, it is the problem of the school/ ofsted /wider family.

Yes zzzzz but not everyone's DC would be up to speed with doing 80 VR questions in 50 minutes after a bit of familiarisation. I do think you were lucky. How did you know that your DD could cope with the time constraints?