can't be 'polite' and good any longer....

[swallowedAfly]

ds goes to a village primary with all the subsequent over-reliance on parents wealth, education, time, etc. re: assuming sahms are the norm, money is plentiful for fanciful trips and activities, we all know how to sew up costumes at the drop of a hat etc.

that's fine. i chose to live here. however....

homework is way over the top in terms of quantity and right from day one of school. one part of homework (there is loads) is the 'learning log' which is pretended to be something children could do indepndently and consolidates learning. except in reality it is not, by a long shot.

i've put up with it and put up with and felt enslaven to doing it until today when i've had enough. this week for ds (6yo and one of the most able in his year) it says, "show me what you've learned about number bonds up to 20 and what patterns you can see". then there's a blank page.

i don't know why (because this is far from the worst that's come home) but today i've had enough and found myself writing on the page that i have no idea what the learning objective is, what outcomes they're hoping for or how the hell they see this as differentiated. i've also asked how they think a parent with numeracy or literacy problems would tackle this task and whether they would actually set this as a task in class to 6yos and expect a meaningful outcome.

there is no context, no structure, no literacy support, no prompts nothing. same as ever. sometimes the tasks don't even relate to anything they've been learning.

am i totally unreasonable or would you after a year or so be fed up too? i am (if it's not obvious) an ex teacher and i know what education is supposed to be about and this is not it. homework should be meaningful. how could a 6yo read that question and face a blank page and do something a teacher could look at and assess to see what they've learnt? they couldn't.

on top of this learning log (given on a friday and expected in by tuesday) daily reading and signing of reading book is expected plus other bits and bobs. he's 6! he's been getting this since 5 at a point where some kids couldn't even write let alone face a blank page and an open ended task and produce something yet they'd get in trouble if they didn't. this is just a test of parents surely? and an unfair one given it assumes knowledge and literacy that some parents won't have?

sorry for long random rant but help! i'm not playing this game anymore and i'm ready to speak up. it's a joke.

No, I am suggesting that. I am saying that children can be assessed against any level of the curriculum that is appropriate. But teachers really shouldn't be fishing around to find out what subject knowledge DC have gleaned here and there. If they are, they will be wasting an awful lot of time that could be spent on the curriculum. I appreciate that teachers mind find it a lot more fun to observe a DC than teach the curriculum. They need more self-discipline!

Equally, I presume that in English writing, in your system a teacher would not look at the correct use of e.g. brackets or commas in a younger child's work, nor 'older' vocabulary, because that's 'not in the curriculum'.

Or is a child 'allowed' to work beyond 'the age related curriculum' in writing but not in Maths??

Writing is a component of Mother Tongue Literacy and is completely different to mathematics because 90% of MT is learned outside the classroom, whereas 90% of mathematics is learned in the classroom.

When I was teaching, I hated setting homework. It was mostly pointless. The only useful homework I set, in terms of actually impacting on learning, was that which paved the way for the next lesson, and that was only ever useful Year 10 plus.

I have yet to see a piece of homework which genuinely moves a child on, or adds to the assessment a teacher makes within class or through usual levelling tasks. I see plenty of homework which is used to bludgeon children, or bore them, or waste time, or paper, or tick boxes for OFSTED or school policy, or give girls an excuse to spend hours typing.

I do spellings, reading, and practical matsh taks with my two. That's it.

OK, so I ask the children to do some counting (which, I am sure you agree, is in the curriculum). We do it together, we do it in pairs, we go up, we go down, we count objects, we count aloud, we count and write the number, we remove one and count again, lots of stuff. The range of curriculum objectives being worked on in a single age class is likely to be varied so there will probably be some different tasks going on, and some children may have equipment that others don't. There will be teacher input, there may be TA support, there may be a focus group or a series of focus groups. I will be teaching throughout the lesson, but not always the whole class.

As part of this teaching, I ask the children questions. X, can you count to 10 for me? Excellent? J, can you count down from 20, because last week you found that a bit tricky. Oh, brilliant, we will work a bit more on 12 and 11. T, can you count down from 100 in 2s? Lovely. Y, show me how you've written your sequence counting down in 5s, great, you've got that, could you count down in 5s but start with 101 this time?

It's not wasting time, it's called a lesson with differentiation, and it's what we do every day - and after that lesson I will know what each child has succeeeded in and what their next step is.

I appreciate that DS is odd. Although I would now say that a majority of the maths he knows was taught to him in the classroom, at 5 the vast majority was learned outside, through his own exporation and questioning - if you like, his mother tongue is maths. As a child with ASD tendencies maths made MUCH more sense to him than this slippery language stuff!

bravo your ds.

i'm lost as to how you're talking about differntiation there but seem to think there's no problem with not differentiating homework tasks. anyway.

given two local headteachers, governors and educational experts i've consulted all agree this is unacceptable and lazy practice i'm happy with that conclusion.

It seems as though contesting the homework has ripped the plaster off a proverbial sore at this school, and all sorts of things are revealing that it is in fact not doing that well.

yes. it's also the sort of... confirmation really that all the little things that had felt wrong do all link up into one central problem.

I've commented and asked questions 3 times on this thread, trying to make sense and perhaps explain some of the things you have seen. As you have not responded to any of them I am going to walk away now and leave you to rant. Clearly there are some issues at your school but do be aware that not everyone will think the way you do. Do not presume to speak for everyone.

I will say again one of the things that lots of other teachers have said, including myself, on several occasions- YOU may not have understood the learning log task or been familiar with number bonds but your child would have been. In the primary school, aged 6, we would not expect your child to explain Number Bonds in fully formed sentences. However, diagrams/ illustrations/ simple sums would demonstrate fully. Learning logs/ journals are common place in many primary classes and the children are very familiar with them. They store personal targets, records of active learning activities, photos, personal reflections and so on. Used properly they are not simply another crap piece of paperwork. Substandard SFL and EAL policies are not acceptable.

"for those going 'oh it's just a bit of homework' i suggest you broaden your view or consider the idea that if education or equality and diversity or even sociology 101 are not specialist subjects of yours you may just possibly not understand the context and implications of what you're scoffing at"

That is really ironic coming from you, someone who was scoffing about children with SEN's in this thread. On previous threads, you have also expressed how superior you feel as an ex teacher and defended reallocating 1:1 provision from legally binding statemented SEN children as teacher see fit, that their parents have fought hard to get for years. Yet here you are getting your knickers in a twist about some homework that a teacher has set and being self righteous about equality and the 'uneducated'. Maybe teachers don't always know best eh!

Swallowed I sent my dc to a school like yours! I put up with it, battled with it and almost went crazy - moved schools...no regrets, life improved for all of us.

Not read whole thread but I completely agree with you OP. badly structured homework to say the least. Why are they asking 6 yo to explain in words number concepts they may or may not have fully grasped in number terms. It's actually very hard to explain maths in words.

What actually does "show me what you've learned about number bonds up to 20" mean? Does it mean list all the number bonds up to 20? Or is there something else you are supposed to show? If it means list then say list. It's not more creative to be vague and confusing.

I feel your pain OP. we had a badly thought through homework this week too. 6yos to think about the concept of peace and fill out a piece of paper with the headings "peace includes..." and "peace excludes....". So weird and clumsy. Who would write a sentence along the lines of "peace excludes being angry and fighting"? It's not a good structure but a classroom of 6yos has been practising it this week...

Golly, someone had better tell Jesus that because he managed to turn the tables over in the temple for a start.

Oooh good point boffinmum. See I started having an "enriching" conversation with DD about Syria and about how peace is difficult to achieve given human weaknesses but she couldn't really be bothered beyond the award-winning "peace includes relaxing" so in the end I just left her to do the bare, pointless minimum, huffing and muttering under my breath all the while. Peace does not include homework

'feel yuk about it all this morning.'

You felt yuck. About some blimmin homework?

Imagine what it feels like each morning for a parent if a child with SN who has hours specified in their statement which arrogantly the teacher feels they can use their own judgement on, despite the law?????

Yep OP whilst I sympathise with you in the situation you have outlined, I can't help but wonder whether you feel any different about all your posts on the previous thread concerning adhering to Statemented 1 to 1 support or lack thereof.

I am saying that an open-ended homework task is very differentiable - in my example of 'make 12' the children are used to the game (as we played it often as a starter to a lesson on calculation) and had an idea of what types of responses were acceptable / interesting from them (on an individual basis), and I added some notes about how the more able could extend it (use division, use 2 different operations, use fractions etc).

As I say, the 25% plus of children with illiterate parents were subtly helped to complete the homework in school, and work for the most SEN pupils was discussed between TAs or me and carers through home / school liaison books. Those adaptations, like the provision of practical equipment or number cards to take home, would not be 'visible' to the majority of parents.

Well done swallowed sounds awful

I did opposite moved dd1 from large urban school to small village mixed age groups so they did differentiate.

large urban primary-excessive homework from term 1 of reception.

extra piled on year 1 weekly spelling tests and maths

year 2 term 1 hell writing to reading, spellings and maths,

dd1 spent hour crying over her maths homework spoke to other parents who had same thing.

got told off in front of year 2 teacher as did you know your child got her homework wrong? why I explained in class. come to think of it it might have been number bonds cut up numbers and out them in an order.

The ta told me your child said they read entire book not page 1-5 as i told you, you read what I tell you to read!

used to see ks2 parents talking and stuck on year 4home work so god knows how kids felt.

The spellings-10/10 ever week but ask her month later or look at her written work not good.

we moved and ks1 had no homework policy

just read encourage child,s love of reading.

just moved up to year 3 though and they had shakeup,

last year they had a calculations policy evening to inform parents how they teach maths.

Last week was the home learning agreement a contract the school parent ad child had to sign.

A list of expectations.

sad to say we now have spellings, times tables, reading challenge, maths delegated this to hubby as i have a on greece to complete by 21st october where it suggest she use power point-god im shite with power point and how she might want to attempt some greek pottery and how I have to enthuse my child to write a greek myth.

fair to say im bit nervous.

Im sure you probably heard about it but under osfted theres parent view and old school had some scathing reveiws try accessing that and see whats on there as too many negatives can trigger ad inspection.

As for the stickers wonder if you could report them social services for bullying?

speak to governers.

Another old classmate went to local private primary she boasts about amount homework they get like its measure of good school.

I dident think there was an legal requirement? unless added recently?

Adverts in book bag include

primary times full of private school stuff

expensve holidays clubs
leisure centre half term books
yellow moon book
pheonix cards book
explore learning
soft play leaflets

as well as crazy requests costumes, money at short notice, charity money.

pet hate was forced nspcc buddy sponsorship where they went into assembly dd suffered this twice at both schools and she was one of few who dident take part and get rewards,

Homework in primary should never be open-ended or remotely ambiguous. Repetition and training are the purpose of homework in primary.

bonsoir - i've been reading literature reviews on homework in primary and it seems the main purpose and agenda at ks1 is to involve parents in their children's education. no evidence that homework adds anything to achievement or outcomes at this stage so it's all about getting the parent involved and on side. fine - if that's what it's for make it accessible to parents - as in all parents.

there is some evidence of small but significant improvements in achievement and outcome for older children doing homework however it's not a linear relationship as in the more homework done the higher the achievement and too much is detrimental. also no way of analysing whether it's the homework that adds the value or that those who do well are those who enjoy homework and independent learning ergo you find a correlation between achievement and homework - itms?

for those trying to force my thread into being a thread about a thread with filled with digs and false comparisons to stuff on another thread a) this is considered quite bad form, b) i'm sorry you feel ignored but i am ignoring and choosing to engage with the people talking about this issue.

to those who think i'm ignoring them repeatedly telling me how wonderfully homework, open ended tasks, learning logs etc can be used my apologies but my concern isn't whether they can be used well theoretically but how they are actually being used in this specific case.

for those determined to make me out to be some sen bashing horrible bigot - i cba to defend myself repeatedly to people determined to misunderstand and determined to use this thread as an opportunity to have a go i'm afraid.

that's all i'm going to say in response to all that as it's not what this thread is about and you cannot defend yourself against a charicature assessment of you anyway - if people see things in 2D and are unshiftable there's no way i can fill out the picture for them and so i'll bow to letting you view me as the monster you've painted me as - enjoy.

just to add to the second paragraph of my post above - there is also no way of extracting 'home environment and parental input and socio economic status' type stuff from the data either - so the correlation may be due to that anyway rather than the physical setting and doing of homework.

We also get the learning logs.

I'm aware that the school see this as a wonderful opportunity for parents and children to work together and for us to support their learning. In practice however, dcs have a strong view on how they want to do it, usually involves the route that gets it over and done with as quickly as possible, any suggestion from us that more could be added is quickly rejected and followed by sulking as we have subtly criticised their work, so we have learned for the sake of family harmony to only "help" when it's requested, which isn't often and the standard of their learning logs isn't great compared to their classmates - the best ones get shown on open days. I don't think they get anything out of those bloody learning logs, I can see how other kids do but for us they hang over the weekend like a black cloud. We haven't seen them this year yet, hoping that's a permanent thing.
Nice parent/child time in our house involves a book, happy, positive, relaxing for all....but force that one and you'll get a similar reaction to the above in many households.
Really wish primary school could focus on fostering a love of learning rather than hitting Sats targets. Our once lovely primary school has wandered down the dubious path of being obsessed with Ofsted outstanding status and getting the top Sats results in the county, it make me really sad.

oh one more thing - no i didn't feel yuk over 'a bit of homework' (thanks for minimising my feelings and telling me i'm not allowed to have them btw) i felt yuk over a teacher basically telling me that the school doesn't give a fuck about kids from disadvantaged backgrounds, doesn't give a fuck about differentiation and thinks kids are destined to be limited by their parents socio-economic status. i also felt yuck about her rolling her eyes at my child and making him feel horribly uncomfortable.

so no, not over a bit of homework but over a sickening attitude, lack of professionalism and complete disregard for equality agendas.

Swallowed I know it is considered bad form to refer to other threads, so sorry for that.

The question has been bugging me though, because you now have discovered, personally,how an individual teacher's attitude along with school policy can result in vast inequalities regarding children's opportunities for educational success.

The question was not particularly loaded and it links with your very recent experiences, I suppose I am asking if you think you were previously naive concerning the state of our educational system today.