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Teachers do not adhere to Statemented 1 to 1 support, do not believe in sub-levels, make APP assessments up....How much of what parents are told by schools about teaching is a box ticking exercise?

1002 replies

Regards · 24/09/2013 14:05

Following on from this thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/primary/1859219-Im-a-teacher-and-happy-to-answer-any-questions

and this:
community.tes.co.uk/tes_primary/f/36/t/381051.aspx?pi2132219857=1

I realised I was incredibly gullible when my DC first started school. What exactly should we believe concerning what the teachers tell us, how much is a PR job to cover up the ugly truth?

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swallowedAfly · 25/09/2013 08:37

not only do you have very little control over any of it you're the one left in the firing line for criticism because you are the frontline. parents don't tend to go shouting at the LEA or the Education Minister - they shout at the teacher.

hazeyjane · 25/09/2013 09:17

I don't know why you feel attacked, Wellthen. As you have said you don't use the word 'retard' to describe children - but then try to defend other teachers who do use the word. I'm sorry but it is indefensible.

zzzzz · 25/09/2013 09:18

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PolterGoose · 25/09/2013 09:58

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hazeyjane · 25/09/2013 10:01

Shameful to think that teachers possess an arrogance that leads them to believe they know more than the plethora of professionals who are actually trained in disability and special needs.

Yes to this^^

Regards · 25/09/2013 10:06

swallowed A teacher can decide to be honest, surely?

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insanityscratching · 25/09/2013 10:59

I'd say you are spot on there Polter but I would also add that there are decent teachers out there who are doing their best by our children.Dd's school is a hugely inclusive school and the HT, SENCo and some of the teachers fight tirelessly to secure support for the children that need it and work openly and happily with parents as a partnership.
Unfortunately I don't believe dd's school is representative of the majority of schools and it most definitely isn't in the local area as I drive dd past four schools to take her there as do many of the other parents of statemented children in the school.

PolterGoose · 25/09/2013 11:20

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insanityscratching · 25/09/2013 11:42

Exactly Polter it has taken dd's school years to put right the damage caused by a yr1 teacher in a different school but it means she will always be vulnerable and it means she won't go to secondary school next year (so I'll have to home ed instead) purely because the chances are that there will be one of "those" teachers among the five or six she will come into contact each day.
I knew dd's school would be good to their word when I phoned to look round and they said turn up whenever you want, when I could turn up unannounced today to see dd and I know she would be happy and supported and that when she started there they let me choose how quickly she could handle full time and topped up her 20 hour statement with their own funding so that she would be supported constantly.

soapboxqueen · 25/09/2013 12:12

There is no way of telling who the people are on tes. I don't know any teachers who use it. Considering there are some very organised troll gangs on the Internet nowadays, I would believe most were not teachers.

There is never an excuse for using such remarks. Personally I don't even think them, let alone use them.

As others have said they're are always going to be bad eggs in every profession. However the majority of us work damn hard to do the best for the children in our care. Believe me, my job would be a hell of a lot easier if I didn't give two hoots and made up all of the assessments.

app should be a continues process with evidence to back it up.

I've discussed use of ta's on a previous thread so I won't go over it again.

In regards of how to improve the situation...

Assessment levels need to be simple so that everyone can easy understand them and know if their child is progressing or not. Currently I think it is quite opaque for most people. That way parents can monitor. External agencies are all well and good but they can't move fast enough to help individual children.

Support for children at any level of sen needs to be faster and much easier to get. Statements are sold as a way of getting guaranteed support when in actual fact they are a way of rationing support. They are incredibly difficult to get and many children in need of support or extra sessions do not qualify. This is where schools start being free and easy with one child's support in order to help other children. It isn't right but I understand why it is done. This wholesale use of funds for other children has not occurred in any schools I have worked in. At least not to my knowledge. I do know of other schools where a ta statemented to work with one child is given 3 children who need support. Not in a your statemented child is working in a group sorting of way but that the ta had been given two extra children which is entirely wrong, not least because it makes life much harder for the staff. Never mind that none of the children are being properly supported.

Currently the systems take too long and quite frankly when experts come in they often look at the class teachers as if they are the cause and give very generalised strategies. Which in some cases will not work with the whole class or will be counterproductive to other children. They tend to look at the one child without taking into account that the teacher needs to deal with a whole class which has its own very different dynamic. Don't get me wrong, some teachers need a serious attitude adjustment and can create more problems than they solve but assuming that it is the case everytime helps no one.

Lack of strategies and motoring of progression, especially for children who have behavioural problems means that often they are given one to one support or essentially a minder. Then nothing else happens. Some schools work hard to put in extra support but not everyone.

I think Ofsted needs to stop inspections in their current form. They are a waste of time. They need to be what most parents think they are already, essentially school referees. They should have offices up and down the country where parents can wonder in and say look school said x, y and z is this right? My child had only made x progress, is it okay? School keeps sending my ds home, are they allowed to do that? Instead of the piece meal support that is given to parents currently which they often don't know how to access anyway.

A separate service for school improvement should facilitate schools learning best practise from each other and helping staff share strategies that work for various children.

zzzzz · 25/09/2013 12:31

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soapboxqueen · 25/09/2013 13:01

zzzz you are making the assumption that there is only one child in class with additional needs. I work in mainstream education but children without needs are in the minority in a number of classes in my school.

One external professional giving advice which isn't going to work and in some instances contradicts support needed for another is less than useful. Some advice is specific to one child and does not affect others but some is about classroom management which in some instances is useful and effective but other times is detrimental.

Things really are not that simple. Nothing is when it involves people. Trying to make it sound simple doesn't help anyone or improve support and services.

soapboxqueen · 25/09/2013 13:04

Also i'm not complaining about things being awkward. I'm talking about things being unworkable or impractical.

You can't change and improve what we have if you don't get what we currently have and why we have it.

zzzzz · 25/09/2013 13:11

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Regards · 25/09/2013 13:16

However "what we currently have" is not the same for every school. Not every school is open and honest about what they have, they 'play the system' and gloss over the fact to the parents. There is not always accurate reporting about what their child is receiving or their progression.

How can parents 'get what we currently have and why we have it.', in this type of scenario. How easy is it even to uncover this type of scenario if there is collusion amongst staff?

In one way I am pleased that new SEN legislation seeks to uncover mismanaged resources, through school having to demonstrate they have spent an initial 6k before Higher Need Funds are applied for. Quantified Provision Mapping IMO will uncover some of this. In another way the legislation does not go far enough, especially with regards to inclusion and reporting progression (since Levels are being abolished and there seems to be no replacement).

The only way to prevent this is honesty, transparency and integrity from individual schools and teachers but it is a difficult thing to judge from the outside.

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Regards · 25/09/2013 13:19

^and Parents being able to manage their child's individual funding will be incredibly interesting.

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soapboxqueen · 25/09/2013 13:34

Regards my whole post further back was about a need for transparency and for systems that are easy for the public to understand. Systems that are not as easy to gloss over. There will never be a perfect system but at the moment is easy enough to keep pretty much everyone in the dark if you are in charge of a school. Classroom staff included.

zzzz Usually the comment I get back is 'well that's what we recommend' meaning they don't have another answer. More often than not I get bounced back by senco or the head teacher. Most children have been assessed long before I get them anyway so staff have been muddling through for a while. While some external assessors are great and have some really great strategies, many are rubbish or are not used to working with a particular age of children. Even the best are only in class for a short period of time and usually, sods law, the child behaves entirely differently.

I'm not trying to defend the current system. I'm defending why some things happen. I can only work with what I am given. I can't magic up money, resources or better consultations.

soapboxqueen · 25/09/2013 13:38

I agree it will be interesting when parents can see the books so to speak. I just hope they're will be support for some to understand it.

Many of our most in need children, also have vulnerable parents who wouldn't necessarily understand or would take a heads word that it was the best option. Having easy access to something very visible such add the local Ofsted office would give them a chance to get plans and provisions checked over.

Regards · 25/09/2013 13:41

Well from the sounds of it we have imperfect schools, imperfect teachers and an imperfect system. Pretty much what I thought with some teachers and schools trying to gloss over this and becoming very secretive and defensive.

I appreciate your honesty soapbox and I hope you are able to be honest and accurate in your reporting to the LA and parents.

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Regards · 25/09/2013 13:42

Sounds like a lot of the teachers are 'vulnerable' too, the lengths some will go to to cover all this up.

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Regards · 25/09/2013 13:46

I also hope the 'support' for parents to understand 'the books' is neutral too.

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soapboxqueen · 25/09/2013 13:49

I think you assume teachers have a lot more say and powers then we really do.

Yes teachers can subvert by ignoring children's needs which should be dealt with by senior management. However, the majority of the time we have no more power than the parents. In fact I would argue less so as really we can't do anything without permission from parents or management.

soapboxqueen · 25/09/2013 13:50

Regards I have no idea what you meant by that last statement.

Regards · 25/09/2013 13:55

I am only a parent. I do not know what decisions are made by the SMT and what decisions are made by teachers. All I know is that there is corruption and collusion from somewhere.

All I would ask of teachers is to be honest. I tend to be able to spot lies and obvious squirming, reports and decisions that just don't 'add up'. It is the elephant in the room as I can spot it, but just cannot accuse without the evidence, which takes a while to collect.

Yes I am that parent.

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Regards · 25/09/2013 13:58

What that 'support' should be neutral? Just that not taking 'a heads word that it was the best option.', necessarily makes one 'vulnerable'. Everyone including Head Teachers is fallible and is not beyond reproach.

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