Teachers do not adhere to Statemented 1 to 1 support, do not believe in sub-levels, make APP assessments up....How much of what parents are told by schools about teaching is a box ticking exercise?

[Regards]

Following on from this thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/primary/1859219-Im-a-teacher-and-happy-to-answer-any-questions

and this:
community.tes.co.uk/tes_primary/f/36/t/381051.aspx?pi2132219857=1

I realised I was incredibly gullible when my DC first started school. What exactly should we believe concerning what the teachers tell us, how much is a PR job to cover up the ugly truth?

'every class should have a high level ta whose time is allocated as needed in the context of that class'

Well perhaps, but that is an entirely different argument from a statemented 1:1. The two are not interchangeable. If a teacher needs a HLTA they need to raise that with their schools and get one as well, not ever use the 1:1 in that capacity.

'inclusion to means needing specialists on site who are able to provide specialist support still in the same building but allowing for a flow between specialist support and provision and mainstream inclusion.'

Well yes, but they will also need a specialist in the classroom when they attend to support their inclusion.

Units exist but they don't work as they tend to be the opposite of inclusion and more of a 'holding pen' during literacy and numeracy which is often the areas most accessible to the children with the most common SEN (ASD) as the structure makes it possible with support to attend.

Instead they are banished from those lessons and then 'included' for the group stuff and abstract stuff and expected to cope totally unsupported.

'sure you could enforce a unit on sen onto teacher training but realistically it's still going to be superficial because it's such a broad area and no one professional be they teacher, doctor, whatever can know everything about everyone's condition.'

Whilst this is true, a lot of it could be overcome by good training in data-driven evidence-based practice. You don't HAVE to know the ins and outs of a condition, you just have to know behavioural techniques that ensure engagement and motivation and how to recognise that in children for whom traditional and 'typical' motivations like pleasing the teacher or not making their peers cross, don't apply.

There is a lot of classroom management training, but that is about applying behavioural techniques to encourage compliance. There is very little of this in terms of encouraging LEARNING in teacher training.

Class teachers give the children tangible rewards for doing whatever makes the teaching workable i.e. stickers, golden time, moving up rockes/rainbows, allowed to take the register to reception etc. but when it comes what makes school and learning workable for the child all of a sudden children are expected to have intrinsic motivation and simply 'want' to learn.

For most kids this is fine and they can understand that there is a pay off somewhere, but many children with SEN just can't see what's in it for them.

And all that Polter said.

That is a point too Polter. Most of my ds' needed provision was free too, and simply needed a reasonable adjustment. Because that adjustment wasn't made, he needed a TA to try and prevent, and then often repair, the damage caused by that adjustment not being made.

Swallowed Have you read the information I posted up-thread about the change to funding legislation which includes changes to SEN funding legislation?

Teachers should be asking right now for support for children with SEN as more funds for that purpose have been given upfront to schools. Schools now have to fund the initial 6k of additional support before extra funds are applied for.

However this money is not ring-fenced, it is up to the school to decide how to spend this money. So start engaging with your SMT now, if you think you need more support for children with SEN before the money is spent elsewhere.

sadly i'm left with the impression that some parents would be outraged if whilst their child was doing fantastically on a task their ta had the compassion to give 2minutes attention and care to another child who needed a bit of help whilst the teacher was busy helping 28 other kids get on with the task.

I would not be outrages but I would like it formally recognised my child could cope with this and a note made of how often they were coping with this kind of occurrence.

It is important because it shows their progression, if they are coping well. If they do not cope well, well they need the support as outlined on their Statement, which they are entitled to.

^outraged

I would be outraged. Because if the teacher can't cope with the rest of her class then she should make this known to the school rather than relying on a child's statemented 1:1 to help her.

Can any teacher on here REALLY deny that often, having a statemented child's 1:1 their classroom puts them further down the list wrt being allocated a class TA?

Swallowed your statement I quoted does actually make me smile a little bit. My DC would, at one time, actually (helpfully) point out other children in the class that needed help to the TA, to get rid of her attention.

I understand Starlight, I'm all for making it known.

offs - you're talking about an adult turning round and answering a spelling question or answering, 'what did she say to do after question 3 miss?' to a child who doesn't realise he's not allowed to talk to the ta unless he's got a statement saying he owns her really? you want that recorded and assessed? ffs.

Swallowed if it actually takes up a significant proportion of the TA's time it is important to make a note of it. I've explained why...

If a note is made it is less of a shock when a change in need does occur, there is less to prove.

Otherwise its a slippery slope....

tues, 10.13am, ta turned and said, 'f, r, i, e, n, d' to jonny smith. this interaction took 4.2 seconds and appeared to be of no detriment to ta's charge who was busy writing for those 4.2 seconds. however it should be noted that 4.2seconds of the child's 1:1 provision was 'stolen' and is now owed or perhaps the fact that they coped suggests their time allowance of 1:1 support should be reduced by 4.2 seconds? nb: must write a 2000word report on this major incident and call a conference to discuss it's ramifications and must inform parents, psychologists and uncle tom cobbly within 24hrs.

slippery slope? for crying out loud.

yes i'm afraid i did let your child die in a fire when i could have helped them but legally i'm not allowed you see as i'm employed to give 1:1 support to child y and it's a slippery slope if i start bending that.

Yes it's a slippery slope.

Your ''harmless' one off answer to another child's question' is another teachers ''harmless weekly half hour bout of photocopying''.

That's why you can't 'interpret' the law.

Parents are the only ones who are motivated enough to hold schools to account so imo you are morally obligated to tell them if the TA is being used for anything other than that which is specified in the statement.

If they aren't happy there are legal courses of action available to them, but if you don't tell them they can't use them.

Swallowed Now, now, calm down dear.

You know you are exaggerating. I said 'significant' amount of time. Maybe to be noted in Home School Diary, if they are kept. Maybe to be discussed at termly Review Meetings or Annual review Meetings.

Wouldn't take much...and could be very informative regarding how well a child has been coping with the amount of support they had been receiving.

why are you assuming teachers don't do that? lots on here have already said they do.

but some people's ideas of what it is like to sit in a roomful of young children seem totally unrealistic.

you can't spend the whole time staring at one child and never being interacted with by others.

Swallowed In any case you will have to start coping with more accountability regarding what resources have been received by individual children for their additional needs, if you want to get extra support. Have you read the new legislation?

you know i can see it's stressful to feel you have to be on guard for your child all the time and to have to fight to get them the help they need. i suspect though there's a point where that fight can turn over into something else and become obsessive and controlling to the point of unhealthy.

As a parent, I would not use the legal system for a TA's occasional answering of questions of the other children (provided that I was quite certain that in those 4.2 seconds a vital and rare attempt at social initiation from my child was missed and left unsupported, or any other need that they had.

However, if it became regular or increased intensity and unaddressed by the teacher as a resource need for the other children then I would.

I most certainly would for a weekly half hour photocopying assignment but then, no school that I have had experience of would ever tell me, and if I suspected or saw with my own eyes that that is what happened I'd get a spiel about how the class teacher had made an executive decision that my ds needed to learn independence all by himself, without being taught it and an insistence that it was a one off, even though other parents regularly tell me that said TA is always at the flipping photocopier.

Swallowed that is the whole point I'm not assuming. Speaking for personal experience here.

^from