Active discussions

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

Original poster

All levelled out.

126 replies

morethanpotatoprints · 18/07/2013 22:40

Ok, levels don't mean a thing to me. I have no idea what level my dd is currently working at, in any subject.

With so many posts and threads on here, I wondered why so many parents are bothered. I'm not being judgemental as I used to like to know what level my dc were, but I don't know why.

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
Set a reminder
Original poster
morethanpotatoprints · 19/07/2013 19:27

Russians

You rebel, I'll be seeing you on the H.ed pages next Grin
Seriously, I don't blame you, they are a circus.
Apparently though its not the testing but the stress and pushiness of some schools.

OP posts:
TeenAndTween · 19/07/2013 20:08

Russians - I think you would be doing your DD a disservice if you keep them home for y6 SATs.
She would have done all the prep, but would miss out on the 'right of passage' with her classmates. She might also feel that you didn't think she was capable which could knock her confidence.

What you need to do instead is make sure you give her a clear consistent message that yes it is nice to show what you can do, but nothing important hinges on them, so not to get worked up, and not to do stupid amounts of extra work.
Refuse to do loads of extra h/w if set by the school if you like, but please let her do the SATs.

lljkk · 19/07/2013 20:49

I agree it's the big fuss they make of y6 SATs that is the problem, not the tests themselves. So keeping them off SATs week (which school would go into meltdown about, btw) achieves nothing except adding gray hairs to the HT's head.

Original poster
morethanpotatoprints · 19/07/2013 20:59

Well, there is absolutely no way my dd will have any formal assessment, or given a level for the rest of her education.
I haven't heard one argument to convince me they serve any purpose

OP posts:
Acinonyx · 19/07/2013 21:07

'or given a level for the rest of her education.' So will she ever do any exams of any kind?

curlew · 19/07/2013 21:12

So you have decided now, when she is 8, that your dd will not do GCSEs? Or am I misunderstanding you?

Original poster
morethanpotatoprints · 19/07/2013 21:19

No, not at all.

She is planning to do a couple at 13 and another 2 or 3 at 14, unless she attends a school.
I have never said that GCSE's aren't important, I just don't see that levels are necessary. nor do I think that constant assessment and testing is neither.

OP posts:
Feenie · 19/07/2013 21:20

How do you know if dd has grasped a concept or not?

Original poster
morethanpotatoprints · 19/07/2013 21:25

Hello Feenie.

She works at her own pace with a number of resources. If she is clearly struggling or not sure she will ask for confirmation.
An example would be fractions, she will either do a work book, practical application through cooking, or cutting out and colouring shapes. If she was getting it wrong I would see. Sorry to be basic, but thats how she learns. I know through the gaps in work books or reading writing she has done where her weaknesses are.

OP posts:
Original poster
morethanpotatoprints · 19/07/2013 21:30

I don't know what she is supposed to do per school year unless she has a book stating the year. She has books covering all of KS2 and KS3 and she does what she feels like. So as you can imagine this would be difficult to level.
I have offers from our neighbour to mark an end of year English SATS for her, and it would take her 20 mins or so. She doesn't understand that its not important or necessary. I did thank her though as I know it is very kind and she has enough of her own class to mark. Maths I could do myself as the marking guide is included. Here again it would be pointless and not necessary

OP posts:
Feenie · 19/07/2013 21:32

But what you're describing IS teacher assessment Smile

Decent teacher assessment isn't constant testing, which I also abhor.

Original poster
morethanpotatoprints · 19/07/2013 21:39

Feenie.

I know its assessment of what she can and can't do, but it isn't with the intention of gaining a level, which is my main bone of contention.
I don't need to know a level to know what progress she is making as a parent or in supporting her learning. It isn't necessary and imo can hold dc back or even turn them off a subject.

OP posts:
Feenie · 19/07/2013 21:45

But why does the intention matter so much if the process is exactly the same?

curlew · 19/07/2013 21:50

I'm beginning to wonder if this is all semantics. I suppose if you only have to deal with one child them you can keep in your head where she is, and what she needs to do and where her strengths and weaknesses are. If you have 10 children, you have to call that something. You can call it green if you think that numbers are too prescriptive. But I really don't see why calling it 3 is such an issue, so long as the child know that it is just a way of naming where they are at the moment, and a way of finding out where their strengths are and where the gaps are.

Feenie · 19/07/2013 21:51

Quite.

waityWaity · 19/07/2013 22:32

Agree with curlew.

Original poster
morethanpotatoprints · 19/07/2013 22:36

But this is my point, giving it a name isn't necessary imo.
Working on specific subjects at certain times in order to gain a level isn't necessary.
I think that having levels is prescriptive per se.
So the process isn't the same.
I can't see any other reason to learn like this, whether at school or home.
I do know some H.ed families who strictly follow the nc and gain levels so its not a H.ed v school issue.
I am just trying to find a good reason and also to make sure I am not doing my dd a disservice.

OP posts:
Original poster
morethanpotatoprints · 19/07/2013 22:44

Sorry, I meant to add I was also playing devils advocate to the many posts asking questions and discussing levels.
From what I can gather, correct me if I am wrong but a level is a measurement of the current ability of a student, and indicates progress made since the last assessment. The level is determined by a prescriptive set of criteria.
So how is this essential or necessary for children to progress as so many parents seem to think?

OP posts:
curlew · 19/07/2013 22:45

I suppose if you think that's all that happens at school, then you might have a point. But, apart from anything else, I want to know that my children's teachers are doing a good job. And knowing that they have reached the basic level expected for their ages is a way of monitoring both them and their school. I have a year 7, and I have just had his report. He is at a school that I had my doubts about, so a report saying" he has learned lots of things- and has had a very good time pursuing his interests" would not have reassured me. A list of numbers did. Because I can see that he has made progress in the way that's important to the education system, and i know now that the school is aware of what he needs to be doing next. This is only a very small part of his life- it's even a small part of his school life. But unless you are a home educator, this small thing is important.

Original poster
morethanpotatoprints · 19/07/2013 23:09

Curlew.

I see, so as well as peace of mind and your own assessment of school and your dcs teachers, to you levels are important because you trust the education system and nc.

So maybe this is why they aren't important or necessary to me, because I don't trust or follow the education system.

Can you tell me why some parents are really bothered by sub levels and what they need to do to reach the next level etc.
Are they may be pushy or mistrusting the school, a bit of both or something different? In your experience, obviously.

OP posts:
Feenie · 19/07/2013 23:10

So maybe this is why they aren't important or necessary to me, because I don't trust or follow the education system.

I would say so Smile

Can you tell me why some parents are really bothered by sub levels and what they need to do to reach the next level etc.

Because they want to see progress.

waityWaity · 20/07/2013 00:22

You know all this detail about your own child, things that are going well and things that need extra support - you pride yourself on knowing all this - and yet you're mystified by other parents wanting to have some kind of similar idea about their own children by whatever limited, crude measures are available to them given that they can't be by their child's side all day while they're learning?

"I don't need to know a level to know what progress she is making as a parent or in supporting her learning."

No, you don't need to know a level to know that. Other parents may need (or find useful) the levels as part of the information they get from schools because they're not with their children all day they way you are. I'm not sure why this isn't obvious to you? You want information about your child's learning, other parents do too, everyone has to make the best of whatever information sources they've got.

curlew · 20/07/2013 06:49

Morethan- you seem to be saying that if you send your child to school rather than HE, you just hand your child over to the school and have no further interest or involvement with your child's learning- and wanting to know anything about how your child is getting on is because you mistrust th school or the system. Which is obviously incorrect- although it's certainly a view that I have come across before with home educators!

PhoenixUprising · 20/07/2013 07:27

OP I don't get you at all.

Is it better to be told 'your child is 2 years behind' then being told he is a 2b?

They both mean the same thing.....

The reason people care about levels us because they show if your DC is on track to achieve GCSEs or not. Which may be a very long way away. But if you're not on track at 9, if you're 2 years behind at 9, there's no reason to believe your child will pass their GCSEs at 16.

Only 50% of kids pass their GCSEs. Totally rude of you to suggest parents shouldn't care which 50% their child will be in.

You're HEing and you know what your DD does and doesn't know. But you don't know if she can do what most 9 year olds can do. and you don't care. But most parents do

MrButtercat · 20/07/2013 07:46

Exactly Feenie.

My very able son made sod all progress last year,nobody cared.We don't get levels in the report so I insisted on having them only to find out by further investigations(I was a teacher) he'd made bad progress.I ended up going in on the last day of term to point this out only for the teacher to say as she sailed out the door"it's been flagged up".

If I hadn't insisted on levels I would have been none the wiser.He got A1 for everything as usual in his report which gives a false sense of security.

Ofsted then rocked up,school plummeted and wouldn't you know progress is an issue.They're still not giving them out unless you ask and only the parents who are teachers or a total pita like me do.

I think it's unfair that only the confident pushy parents get this information.

If Gove takes them away I hope to goodness he puts some other benchmark for parents in it's place otherwise we're going to be totally in the dark and he will be loosing a very powerful weapon in raising standards- parental information and involvement.