School want me to pay for something my child broke? Can they do this?

[MaterGator]

My child broke an instrument during a music lesson at school. It's a state primary school, he's Year 2 - six years old. The school offers violin lessons as an extra. The lessons are arranged by the school, happen during the school day and are taught by an outside teacher whom bills us directly. The school purchased a small supply of violins for prospective violinists to borrow during their first term. My son came home with one of these and has had lessons for a term. There was no 'engagement letter' or hire contract etc.

He has accidentally damaged the violin and the music teacher sent it home with a note saying I had to take it to be repaired and pay for it. Can they do this? I was never told I was responsible for the instrument in this way.

If a child breaks something in the classroom parents wouldn't be asked to replace it would they? Is this different?

Are the lessons free?

school is being a bit harsh I think. Children do have accidents, presumably every day judging by the bruises my children come home with. They are clumsy and drop things and break things. I bet children do lots of damage accidentally during the course of a school year.

I actually broke a window when I was at school which was due to stupidity (I actually didn't realise it would break if I banged on it to attract someone's attention ) and I was worried about being in trouble but they were more worried about the 9 stitches I needed! Applying the logic here, my mum would have been billed for that window which was never on the cards.

But yes I can see that school is entitled to demand repair - I'm just surprised that they would.

You normally sign an agreement accepting responsibility for damage up to a certain amount and then school insurance covers the rest, or that is what I have had to do anyway.

Has he been bringing it home?

Yes it comes home, yes we pay for the lessons

I have really no advice, but I wanted to say that I know that bullying treatment like the type the OP describes can, and does, take place.

Not only in schools, by Headteachers who are responsible for our children, but in churches and in work places, where we would expect better from the perpetrators.

curlew you can be sarcastic and "back away" all you like. It makes you look like a bit of a fool though.

"...He dropped it on the floor, the bridge - wooden support thingy under the strings about halfway along them - has snapped off. That's the only thing damaged. I was told it was 'his fault' but this is of course highly debateable. Especially given the problems I have had at the school previously...."

I do not see how the problems you have previously had with the school have any bearing on whether you believe your son was responsible for breaking the violin. Unless you are suggesting that the school would lie about an innocent six-year-old out of some vindictive desire to get back at you.

You are morally responsible for the cost of the repair.

It's a great way to ensure other children don't get the chance to borrow an instrument. The school will simply withdraw the loan instruments.

The school once opened every single thing in his lunchbox (drink carton, fruit cup, yoghurt, etc), put it all back in there and then sent it home. Apparently because he wouldn't eat his lunch. I would not put it past them to lie about anything.

It seems your feelings about the head are getting in the way of dealing with the damage. You could make a fuss, and the school probably won't make you pay, or you could separate this from other things that have obviously been distressing for you and pay for the damage. I guess he's not able to have his lessons until the instrument is mended? (Either by you or the school)

I am amazed you didn't sign some kind of agreement esp as you are paying.

The school sounds crazy, I would pull my children out even if they were happy and explain to them it was in their best interest.

OK, so two completely separate issues.

HT is a loon = complain vigorously about HT, insist on witness present if speaking to him etc etc. I can see that moving the dc may not be the solution if no other acceptable school nearby, or the kids are happy & settled, with the problem only being you v HT.

However, broken violin needs fixing, & if you decide to be obstructive about it then ds will presumably lose out on violin lessons unless you want to buy him his own instrument. Or some other kid will lose out when it's their turn as the violin pool will be down one, or school will have to shell out, & think twice about lending them out again.

I don't get why you'd see these as desirable outcomes. It's just arsey for the sake of it.

We have to pay for any damage to school library books. We haven't signed anything but other books can't be borrowed until the bill is paid. Damage to the school is billed to parents too eg if light fittings are broken when boys are kicking balls where they shouldn't.

The school should have got parents to sign an agreement about the conditions of borrowing the instruments, so it was clear who would pay for what.

However how do you feel about continuing to send DS for lessons when you haven't paid for the damage? I couldn't do it.

If it is just the bridge that has snapped then it will be a fairly cheap repair. If the fingerboard has been damaged that could be more costly. I did the same damage just tightening a string when I was younger it really was no big deal to mend. Good Luck.

The whole school was told about the nature of your complaint?? Do you know that you have further rights of appeal if you're not happy with the outcome of an internal complaint?

It won't cost much to repair the violin's bridge, providing that no other bits on it have been broken, I don't think. It's literally a bit of glue, taking the strings off, and replacing them, isn't it? It's a long time since I played though so I might have that way off.

If it really was accidental, and you've not had sight of any contract or ageement saying you'll have to pay for breakages, then I would also be a bit about paying, but I probably would. With the proviso that they make it clear in future to parents that they'll be liable if anything goes wrong.

Well you should have signed an agreement, so I guess legally you're not liable. I'm surprised the school hasn't got insurance out on these things.
I probably would pay for it so that other children don't miss out and I wouldn't want the bad feeling. But I can see you why you wouldn't want to.

Well, the violin teacher will be absent next week and there are no lessons last week of term, so he's got one lesson before term end.

Tbh he isn't that keen on the violin and we were planning to give it up anyway. Hence I'm not actually that bothered about fixing it. Again, I hate it that I feel like that, but you are right the school issues are clouding my 'moral compass' about this matter

I think you are within your rights not to pay, given that it was broken in school during a lesson, and there is no agreement in place. However, what is the likely outcome here? No more violin lessons for your DC? Or you have to buy him his own?

I do think there is a bit of a moral obligation here.
DS1 (year R) also takes violinat school. One day he broke the bridge when he was not being careful and I have replaced it. DS1 and I have had lots of conversations about how we have to take particular care of the violin because it doesn't belong to us and one day it will be needed for another little boy or girl. I feel a real sense of responsibility since it is a school instrument and would feel obliged to arrange a repair if DS damaged it.
We have not been asked to sign any hire agreement and it seems to be based on trust which to me only increases the sense of having personal responsibility.
I would feel the same about any item of school equipment lost or damaged- DS1 managed to lose a reading book once and we bought a replacement because I felt so bad about it.

Sorry ,happy or not ,my children would be out of there , who opened all the lunch stuff ?

Tbh he isn't that keen on the violin and we were planning to give it up anyway. Hence I'm not actually that bothered about fixing it

Charming.

Lunch stuff - that would be the head again. What was he doing in the lunch hall? You tell me.

Found violin bridges are £2 on ebay, hee hee hee

PS I have just noticed you said DC broke his bridge. This is a very easy and cheap repair. You can order from Amazon, they are a matter of a few pence only. After DS broke his I ordered 2 so there was a spare in case it happens again. The violin teacher can then easily put it back in position if you don't know yourself how it goes.

Maybe he was trying to encourage your DS to eat his lunch,apparently with no success.

Ok just a short aside you know that a violin bridge isn't glue to the violin don't you? It's held in place by the strings. If the bridge isn't actually damaged it just needs putting back it place. If it is damaged it needs to be properly fitted, they don't come ready to go.

OP, I find your whole approach to this morally indefensible. Go ahead and fight about legal rights to repair the violin but you've said yourself that you know you are morally obliged to pay. You are simply looking to find a way not to do so. The only people who will suffer if you don't pay are other children in the school. Well done you. If you have other issues with the HT and the school then that is a different matter to be treated separately. But seriously, you are saying a member of staff deliberately opened everything in his lunchbox and sent it home without allowing him to eat it just to wind you up??