Ive booked a holiday for next year, taking DS out of school for 5 days...new policy

[mummatotwo]

Weve just booked a holiday in May where I will be taking DS out of school for 5 days...someone has just mentioned there is a new government policy that you are NOT allowed now to do this or you will be fined.

Is this right, I cant find anythign onthe internet!!!!

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/education/1777895-Term-time-absences-banned-by-Gove-Have-you-heard-anything

There has never been any automatic right to take children out of school, you can be fined now however.

Is the school an academy? If so,it is down the the Head Teacher to set the holiday policy,if it is a state school,the rules are fairly set in stone.

Our school is an academy and we had a letter stating that holidays in term time were not encouraged and if taken without permission the Education Welfare officer may be informed,but that there would be no fines.A very sensible attitude,thankfully.

I understand that there is an online petition against the changes somewhere.

Will DC be of compulsory school age at the time of the holiday? If he isn't then you should be fine. If he is then the new policy will apply but the fines aren't automatic.

It's still HT's discretion. If s/he can be persuaded that there are exceptional circumstance, it can still be authorised. An ordinary holiday is very unlikely to be seen as exceptional, though.

If it's not authorised, then yes a fine can be raised.

You need to be telling the Head about all the exciting things you'll be doing on this holiday, and about how you would be unable to do this during school holiday times (cost, lack of availability etc.). It all depends on how sympathetic your Head is to these things, and also what your DS's attendance record is like so far.

I know one Head who flatly refuses all term time holiday requests and another who is broadly supportive if given good reason and good attendance, being of the opinion that the child will benefit from the experience of the holiday. This Head is also aware of the financial limitations of the families the school serves and how the increased cost of holidays in school holidays makes them impossible for most of us.

Harriet Depends on OP?s school, but I get the impression things will be tightening up from September.

DS?s headteacher used to previously authorise time off for holiday without really batting an eyelid, but he?s now made it known that he won?t authorise any holiday from September unless very exceptional circumstances, and that people WILL be getting fined if they disregard this. (of course what makes ?exceptional? has yet to be tested)

We are waiting for the outcome of an application at the moment. I am almost certain it won't be authorised, even though:

1. It is for 4 days to attend a time trial of 100th Tour de France (this doesn't ever happen during UK school holidays).
2. DSs are very keen cyclists and were distraught when Sir Brad withdrew, but they like Cavendish and Froome.
3. They will speak some French and will have to do a report on the trip (so I promised the Head).
4. They have 100% and 100% minus 2 days attendence over the last 2 years respectively.

I am told that this will be considered a holiday and unauthorised...but that the Head will probably (on the quiet) wish us a happy holiday.

Interesting, fedupwithdeployment

The kid loves wildlife and birds, and I want to take her to see a breeding seabird colony in breeding season, which is late June. I also want to take her as far north as I can on the longest day because she's always asking about seasons and why it goes dark and light at different times.

I was going to wait until she was a bit older so she would get more out of it, but if I take her next June it will before she is 5.

Might be worth mentioning what the current Education Act actually says?

"In exercising or performing all their respective powers and duties under the Education Acts, the Secretary of State and local education authorities shall have regard to the general principle that pupils are to be educated in accordance with the wishes of their parents, so far as that is compatible with the provision of efficient instruction and training and the avoidance of unreasonable public expenditure."

If you can make a good case for it being educational - which I'm sure you can - sounds like the sort of thing a school trip would do to me - then you are entirely within the law.

I wouldn't rely on that wording within the Education Act. It does not mean you have the right to take your child out of school, even if you attempt to justify it as educational. It is entirely at the school's discretion whether or not the holiday is authorised regardless of the type of school. If it is not authorised but you take it anyway you can be fined. I can guarantee that you will not get the fine overturned by going to court and pointing to this wording in the Education Act.

I think if you have chosen to start school before 5, the rules on absence still apply.

prh47bridge so you don't think it matters what the Education Act actually says? I've asked the DofE for clarification but they refuse to say either way, so they are not as sure as you ...

I don't see what the problem is. Don't tell the school and call in sick.

prh47bridge has made it crystal clear that in his/her opinion, a HT can be a nasty little dictator and nobody can do anything about it unless pupils have poor attainment levels, make poor progress and/or have low attendance, or the HT is proven to be raving mad. Otherwise, the law doesn't give a damn. Or something like that.

Rabbitstew, in the context of the OP's question, is that helpful?

Arthur, when you asked them, what was the form of the question? If it was along the lines of whether you could use that part of it to contest a fine, I'm not surprised they didn't say as they'd probably need to seek a legal opinion first.

You cannot rely on that bit if the wording because it is qualified by "so far as that is compatible with the provision of efficient instruction and training" and attendance would fall under that qualification (it's the same catch that means you can express a preference for a school, but cannot choose one). Also, here is separate legislation and statutory regulations on attendance which makes e requirement to attend explicit.

I doubt you would be able to challenge a fine for an unauthorised absence, as the basic facts are so readily checkable. You cannot sustain a "sickness" lie under investigation, or rather it's definitely not fair to expect your DC so to do.

There is next to no advice on what might count as "exceptional", other than a reference in Military Covenant documents to parents returning from an operational tour when it is expected that HTs will authorise, but even there the wording still gives HT the final say and it is guidance, not binding direction.

May is generally a bad month to take kids out of school. Lots of end of year tests/exams that month. What year will your dc be?

ArthurSixpence - The DfE do not give legal opinions. But I can tell you free of charge that your argument would fail in court.

rabbitstew - Do not post such libellous comments about me again. I have not said anything of that kind.

our school say no holidayterm 1 or 5

but no 10days authorised discretion from sept.

have no idea what criteria for fines or how much fines would be.

The fine is £60 rising to £120 if it is not paid within 21 days. If it is still unpaid after 28 days the parent can be prosecuted. Note that the timescales I've given are those that apply from September - you currently have 28 days to pay at the lower rate and 42 days before you can be prosecuted.

How many people actually get fined though? Or is it mostly there to act as a deterrent?

It depends on the headteacher. May also depend on the reason for absence - going birdspotting sounds lovely! Schools are not required to report absence figures for under 5s. We recently had a family take their 4 year old to visit family abroad missing 3 weeks of term time which was authorised due to distance.
Fwiw i haven't any personal experience of anyone being fined.

Our Nursery children are taken off roll as soon as there is any unauthorised absence, this is LEA policy. Older children do disappear at times but no holidays are authorised.

reddaisy - In 2011/12 (the most recent year for which statistics are available) over 41,000 penalty notices were issued in England. Around 6,500 of these cases ended up with the parent being prosecuted for non-payment.

We are in Scotland and I don't think the same rules apply but, the way the reading works in our school, missing a week could mean moving down a group. If a child was sick for a week every effort would be made to play catch up. I doubt this would apply to holidays.