Totally confused now re: reception place so called best school or the so called dump

[lala21]

We have accepted a place at an ofsted outstanding school within walking distance: 4 form entry, all singing all dancing all the local parents sing the schools praises non stop-

I loved what I saw but not what I felt - very pushy, very academic ( we live in a grammar school borough so everyone kills themselves to get to this school and then tutor for the secondary.

They have no breakfast club as it was not needed ( receptionist said) due to parents who do work having nannies - could never afford this and will b going back to work at some point/.

Have just had a phone call from nearer school but in a different borough saying they have places etc etc

However- its in socially mixed pocket, alot of working class families ( ofsted outstanding school middle class etc etc and EVERY BLOODY parent in my borough the ofsted outstanding area

the words are its shit, why would you send your child there, its a dump but none of the said people have ever looked round it etc etc etc. whereas I did and I loved the feel for it.

One friends said on saturday just gone 'god if you get offered there u'll need to go private '

I am a bit of a maverick I want my child to be happy and feel safe not pushed to the point of academic exhaustion as he is very sensitive and has some ASD issues.

This school
Its 1 form entry, green playing fields, amazing wrap around care, own swimming pool and is rated good with some outstanding features. Academically probably not as pushy and not so well in sats.

Basically DH has said its up to me go and have a look etc etc ( I am a primary school teacher excuse the spelling but will be at home for a while as have a 2yr old and a baby due in oct.) so have strong feelings and hate how class is used - DH thinks the kids might be a bit rough. BUT I TAUGHT IN EAST LONDON FOR 9 YEARS I KNOW ROUGH and am still going back there to teach because I loved the kids:

Why am I feeling like this: just a rant ps all the mums i have managed to speak to whose children do go to the not so popular school have all said how much they like the caring and family feel to it.

All my 'friends' and every bloody other person whose opinion is not needed are being so snobby and horrible so feel quite upset as I was one of those kids from a sink estate who went on to achieve.

Maybe am taking the comment personally as we were poor, we lived in a council flat, etc

any comments would be welcomed sorry to go on and on

Ignore the snobs and go on what you see and feel about the school.
My children go to a school that many parents are snobby about but have never visited; my children love it. Bottom line SATs results can be very misleading which as a teacher you must know.
Visiting the school and talking to parents whose children actually go to the school seems the right approach.

I find your post odd, OP. You say you are a bit of a "maverick" but you are here, asking for input.

If you are a maverick, go ahead and put your child into whichever school you feel is appropriate to their needs. Why do you need mumsnet input or listen to anyone else's comments??

Don't forget, if there is a waiting list for the "pushy" school then whoever is number one on it may be grateful for the chance to send their child there.

My child went to the village Ofsted Outstanding primary. We moved him after a year. It was all show and no substance. The teachers seemed to be under such pressure to continue ticking Ofsted boxes they showed little empathy to the children. When my son started at the new school he was nine months behind his new peers. So go with your gut, the Outstanding school can't get any better but the other school may be getting more resources and better teachers to help it improve. Good luck.

We had similar. Dd1 was offered a nursery place at the outstanding school everyone wants to get the kids into (don't know if she would have got a reception place there) and when I looked round I hated it. I too thought it was academically pushy (not in a good way!) and the staff weren't very welcoming.

Went and looked round the local one that most people I knew wouldn't have even considered looking at (satisfactory ofsted). Teachers were great, head was very friendly and welcoming. We didn't hesitate to send her there instead. It also had the bonus of being very likely we'd get a place there for reception so she would know some people in her class.

A couple of years later and it's had its best ever SATs results, ofsted is now good with some outstanding teaching and they've been given a large amount of cash to rebuild the school. dd1 is pretty academic and they've certainly encouraged her (i.e. they manage to do well by the academic ones as well as the not so academic ones). They've also really boosted her self confidence. Wouldn't ever regret the decision I made.

If its rated a mix of good and outstanding then I don't know how that is so rubbish? I personally would want my child to grow up in a secure and happy environment, around other children from all walks of life and able to mix with others and achieve to their own abilities. You as a parent will be much more giving to the school in terms of time, attention and possibly money if you feel they are doing the right thing for your child, not feeling alienated by other parents. The people you describe as friends sound utterly charming btw.

Go with your gut instinct. If you've looked around and got a feel for both, you know your child's nature best. Where do they belong? Academic achievement is not always a good measure, and if your child may have some potential ASD issues then a pushy environment could be the absolute worst place. My SIL had a similar decision to make and went with the less academic school, despite MIL spouting off about how that was wrong, etc etc, and my niece is happy and thriving. Also is it likely to be easier to get younger siblings in too? That was a concern for my SIL.

I honestly feel that success at primary comes from a happy family/school relationship, parents who are interested and encourage their child's abilities wherever they lie, and friendships based on genuine likes and not just money or class. Your post seemed to me to lean towards the less popular school. So stuff all those snobs and go with your heart. You've done well despite a harder start in life than others, so your children already have an advantage. Trust yourself on this. Good luck.

Pick the school that is right for your child. If you believe that your child wouldn't flourish in an overly academic/pushy school then don't send him there.

Someone upthread said why bother asking on mumsnet? I think the reason is because our children's education is so important that we don't want to make a rash decision in haste which will affect them for the rest of their lives. So before we act we want to have our thought process sanity checked. Mumsnet is free and has lots of good opinions on it. Why would anyone not ask?

We had a similar "dilemma" (the 2 schools sound very similar to the 2 we were looking at although both ours were 2 form entry - the four form entry is massive and I think that would worry me a bit, is the other school smaller?) In our case on applying to both schools we only got into the ofsted outstanding one as that was our catchment school so that solved our problem!

I am really glad that DD ended up there as it is our local school so the school run is quick and her friends are very local. It is also very caring once you actually get in the door and the standard of everything seems to be high - including emotional and behavioural support etc. The head left in DD's first year and then the breakfast and after school clubs were brought in (her outdated views about working mums went out - which weren't realistic anyway in this day and age!)

DD is academically very bright so it does play to her strengths - but she also struggles emotionally at times and my concerns on that have always been well received and managed. I also have friends with less academic children and they are not pushed beyond what they can achieve.

You sound a bit like I felt in terms of almost not wanting to send DD to the school because of all the fuss over it. But I am glad I didn't write it off due to those feelings. However you are a teacher yourself so you probably have a much better idea of what's what and I would just go with your instinct.

We were in a similar position. 1 form entry outstanding school, 15 pupil entry school with a reputation which was in special measures 4 years ago, or 3 form entry ok school. Everyone fights to get into outstanding school, but was crap for DD who has a mild disability, with very uncaring staff attitudes. We ended up going for the school with the bad reputation who have been fantastic so far and DD is really looking forward to going.

Go with your gut, I say.

Having two children with ASD I would say go for the school with the caring ethos, the one with a knowledgeable SENCo and one that is flexible and willing to think outside the box.
Dd doesn't attend the OFSTED outstanding school which is our catchment school but instead attends a school in a deprived area which is perfect for her.
Pretty sure people thought I was mad when I chose that one over the oversubscribed local school but dd has been very happy there. The school is sensitive to her needs have plenty of experience with SEN and lots of resources as there are 20 plus students with statements (including dd)
Academically she is thriving on course for 5s next year as she would have been in our local school no doubt but she wouldn't have been so happy I do know.
I would go with a school that meets the ASD needs first as that's the priority because if that isn't well managed then the learning won't happen.

I would trust your instincts way more than mine as you are a primary teacher. And you say you teach in the East End.

Plus as a teacher you can quickly identify, and support, any areas the school doesn't meet.

It is nearer, small, has green playing fields and a swimming pool, and has a vibe you really liked. Plus there's the breakfast club to consider. And it isn't in notice to improve or anything. It is still a good school.

I think it is a no brainer personally - I would go for the closer school.

Mine have either been, are going to or are about to start at the school in the town that has a terrible reputation.

But it is historic. Even the recent Ofsted inspection (needs improvement) report commented that the reason it didn't make good is due to previous problems resulting in poor academic results.

I love the school and get very passionate defending the hard work and commitment of the staff there. My children have had some fabulous opportunities and haven't suffered academically (dc1 in all top sets at secondary).

10 years ago it WAS a crap school and was put into special measures. A lot has happened since then and 'people' need to get over a good school always being a good school and vice versa. It doesn't take very long for a school to change.

If the 'poor' school felt right to you, then I would say go for it!

I'd agree with BadRoly that it doesn't take a long time for a school to change, but the pace of change of a bad reputation locally is glacial.
We had a similar decision with DS1 who is now in Y1. 2 equidistant state schools, one of which is the naice white middle class one with the good reputation, the other distinctly multicultural and wide social spectrum with far higher FSM, ESL, SNs. Dh has been a governor at school 2 since before our kids were born, so insider information was obviously a factor, but I was very unsure until I went to look round both. School 2 is vibrant, welcoming, inclusive and does a fantastic job with a very diverse intake. In fact the results are similar at both schools but the "value added" is much better at school 2 since the starting position is often much lower.
I've not yet regretted our decision, though we have had some askance looks and assumptions that we didn't get our choice of school and must be unhappy with it. DS1 is excelling academically and the school's flexible approach is keeping him well stretched and interested.
Since sending him there both now have "good" Ofsted results, but school 2 is on the up and school 1 slipping. Complacent would have been the word I chose to describe it when I looked round.
You are a primary teacher, better placed than most parents to judge a school and to fill any gaps in your child's learning experience. Go with your instincts.

if YOU like the feel of it and your child likes the feel of it then it may well be the right school for your family. not all families are the same, they don't all want the exact same style of education, many people are down on a particular school for some reason or another but in many cases it is based on hearsay rather than their personal experience of it.

Some head teachers of oversubscribed outstanding primaries aren't particularly welcoming because of those very facts. They will be oversubscribed anyway so no need to suck up to scores of parents on visits - results speak for themselves. Therefore I would be careful about picking a school on the basis of the "feel" of it. The best indicator IMO is the reviews that current parents give a school.

I think it depends on what you mean by the 'feel' of it, Scruffey...

School A ('Outstanding'): walking round with the secretary, sec greets 2 or 3 children by name, they completely ignore her, don't hold doors for us, a number of teachers don't even acknowledge us when we enter their classroom, when DD looks in the reception classroom she is ignored by the other children, etc.

School B (Was in special measures, now good): walking round with the secretary, sec greets a couple of children by name, they enthusiastically reply and hold doors for us to go through, every teacher welcomes us into their classroom, some of the children chat to DD (having got permission from teacher), in the reception classroom, DD goes outside to play with sand, and a number of other children put their coats on to go out and play with her, etc.

The 'feel' of school B was far more welcoming than school A, despite neither of the headteachers entering into the equation... It wasn't that the head made us feel welcome/unwelcome (although the head of School A gave us some frankly shocking advice and answers to questions at a follow-up meeting), it was the whole attitude of the school - School B felt far more like a family.

Also, having taught in a 3-form entry school, I know how easy it is for little behaviour issues/troubles at playtime to get swept under the carpet because you have to deal with the big issues. In a smaller school it's easier to deal with everything.

good with outstanding features, green land, one-form entry - sounds lovely! 4 form entry sounds frightening, tbh.

I think you know that school two is better.

You have to ask yourself how you'd feel if the outstanding school were downgraded to 'requires improvement', as is happening all over the place at the moment- would you still want to send your child there?

Thank you all so for taking the time to reply. I was really interested in reading about your own stories and experiences with your children. Sorry not to say a special mention to individual posts so its a collective: THANK YOU - think pregnancy is making me a bit hormonal.

Sorry baffledmum if you felt my post was odd.

I just can't ask or gage any ones advise locally because it is so socially divided and people are so snobby hence its been hard knowing who to talk to hence I thought I would have some friendly advise from all you fellow mums.

Am feeling alot better and actually quite excited about viewing the school this week again with my DH and son as he was not able to come round last time. I thought it was somewhere I'd love to teach as it seems to cater fro everyone and all abilities not those just going for the grammar and independent schools.

Thank you all so much for all your time really really appreciate it.

Tethersend you're right the ofsted outstanding school was visited in 2008 ( whereas this one last year) and words such - new (3years in) inspirational head, exceptional pastoral care, a vibe that endorses learning and knowledge beyond the curriculum in a creative way- god I need to have some balls and stop caring what others think

x x x

Mutley77

yes the ofsted outstanding school was originally a 1 form expanded and this year has a booster class so its going to be 4 form entry but they lost part of the playground this year.

I know having read everything I know where he belongs x x x silly me

Go for school 2. Gut feeling is SO important in these things. I chose my DDs' primary on gut feeling (at a time when both were rated 'satisfactory but were very different schools in terms of ethos).

You have a choice of 'outstanding' and 'nearly outstanding but feels better' - what's not to like about school 2?

Seriously, my DD goes to a 4 form entry infants and it is HUGE and busy and I think quite frightening (and that's just as a parent!) the staff are great, the ofsted is outstanding but the size lets it down. Everything they do feels like a rock concert, the Christmas fayre is ridiculous and although they do try, it can feel impersonal. If you have concerns about ASD, I can't see a 4 form entry being the right place.

I have sent my two sons to the local 'good' school s instead of the 'outstanding' faith school that they could have gone to. One of the reasons for this is that I wanted them to live near their school friends.
I think that a bright child with a supportive background will do well wherever they go

I've just thought... the bigger school has as many children in one year as in DD's entire new school! 120.

A School's academic performance is usually a reflection of the intake.Personally I think the first school sounds ghastly!
However do bear in mind , if you make the wrong decision it will be a lot easier from 'so-called posh school' to ' so-called shit hole'