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230,000 classroom assistants face axe

115 replies

mrz · 02/06/2013 09:58

www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/Education/article1268217.ece?CMP=OTH-gnws-standard-2013_06_01

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xylem8 · 02/06/2013 10:06

I think they are more likely to increase classroom assistants and have bigger classes and fewer qualified teachers

chocciebickie · 02/06/2013 12:41

It's already happening in one senior school I know of! Several TA's will be made redundant at the end of the summer term.

FannyMcNally · 02/06/2013 12:51

Can't access the link but presume it is another stick for HTs to beat us with e.g. Increased hours for no more pay (you're lucky to have a job), compulsory lunch duty (well, you're lucky to have a job), 50p a week raise? (no sorry, you're lucky to have a job) Grin

clam · 02/06/2013 13:46

How interesting that "they've" commissioned research which has conveniently found that TA support can negatively affect children's progress.
And we fall for this shit...

HedgeHogGroup · 02/06/2013 14:55

Be fair Fanny
Headteachers are also 'beat with sticks' and have to make the money go further every year Sad

chosenone · 02/06/2013 15:53

Our head discussed this at a middle ma agement meeting. He said as TA's leave and retire etc they wont be replaced. He says that money in the u budgetfor paying all our TA's would be better spent on more teachers and smaller class sizes and more creative ways of support ing student. The main issue is apparently scribing for children, the beloef is this hinders a child. I can see that as an argument but can not under stand how being more creative will help some mofe of the complex issuez students have. For examplewhen a TA can spend more time going Iiver a topic or working with differentiated material with a small cohort. Like teachers many are an invaluable resource. A small minority are unskilled and not valuable. Our head does not want to make redundancies but quoted several other schools whi h have Sad

chosenone · 02/06/2013 15:54

Excuse typos *

FannyMcNally · 02/06/2013 16:12

Hedgehog I'm still smarting from a 10 minute teabreak that was taken away which was entirely down to the HT but I understand your point!

HalfSpamHalfBrisket · 02/06/2013 16:16

Foundation stage without a TA? One teacher managing the classroom and the outdoor area at the same time, plus toilet incidents, getting changed for PE etc etc. Hahahahahaha .

mrz · 02/06/2013 16:22

It's happening already HalfSpam

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MadeOfStarDust · 02/06/2013 16:27

Yep - our school is down to 1 in each reception class, one to cover all the other 4 infant classes, and one to cover all the 8 junior classes - who basically spends his whole time doing maths with those who need extra help.

JuliaScurr · 02/06/2013 16:36

'negative effects'?
Oh, right

puppy08 · 02/06/2013 16:37

This is old news in my part of London. Downsizing of classes or putting an additional "accelerated progress" teacher into year groups is now thought of as better value for money and better overall. I have to say the results are staggering in terms of aps.

AuraofDora · 02/06/2013 16:47

Didn't realise this was already happening, Puppy08what is your part of London roughly? Can only I imagine the chaos without them but hey, it's only our kids education...

mrz · 02/06/2013 16:52

We have only ever had one TA and a HLTA for 6 classess.

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mrz · 02/06/2013 16:52

no downsizing of classes however

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puppy08 · 02/06/2013 17:00

We have 22 classes and most have 1.5 teachers so downsized groups for literacy and numeracy. It works brilliantly. TAs only employed for specific task contracts.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 02/06/2013 17:03

Already happening here. Jobs vanishing because of budget cuts.

HalfSpamHalfBrisket · 02/06/2013 17:07

mrz I seem to remember from your previous posts that you didn't have full time support whilst working in a FS class (...and you obviously used to manage that well).
I am often on my own with my class for some periods, and it's fine - it's just that all it takes is a toilet accident and you have to stop what you are doing with the rest of the class to sort it out - be that guided reading or an 'input' session.

neolara · 02/06/2013 17:07

Puppy - Could you tell me a little more about what effect these changes have made?

mrz · 02/06/2013 17:13

I wasn't referring to myself HSHB but posts from teachers on TES Early Years

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CrystalSinger · 02/06/2013 20:29

TA support absolutely can negatively effect children's progress. For loads and loads of reasons, all of which you will tell me shouldn't happen - but they do.

  • teacher has to spend time planning for the TA.

  • TA always assigned to bottom table.

  • kids get dependant on their support.

  • teacher doesn't work with them as much.

  • TA running intervention and so teacher doesn't take responsibility for it.

  • tis easier to get TA to scribe / read then to teach child to write / read.

  • child kept in bottom table with TA because they need TA to read for them, even when it's not the right ability table for them.

  • in a small group intervention with a couple of statemented children you can end up with too many adults and it's distracting for everyone plus the teacher has to plan for the TA as well.

All of these things have happened to my DC Or at their school at one time or another.

We're not replacing TAs either but are using the money to hire more (experienced) teachers.

Hulababy · 02/06/2013 20:44

One of the comments from our very recent OFSTED was the outstanding use of learning support assistants within all classrooms. Infact many comments were made and I had a long meeting with one inspector regarding the use of our very many and very well qualified and experienced TAs at the time. There were no negative aspects found in any way. Not in the LEA advisor visits.

But then the list of negative things a TA can cause are not something I see happening at our school. We have a TA in every class, most FT, plus 1:1 TAs for children with high level of needs.

  • teacher has to spend time planning for the TA - not here. TAs plan either individually or as part of the key stage team, sometimes with teachers, sometimes just the TAs. We have regular training and CPD on various interventions and keep up to date, and share knowledge. HLTAs plan and prep entirely independently, no twacher doing it for them at all.

  • TA always assigned to bottom table. - not here. We move around, as does the teacher meaning all children get to work with the teacher, the TA or independently during every single week.

  • kids get dependant on their support - because of above, they don't here.

  • teacher doesn't work with them as much - see above

  • TA running intervention and so teacher doesn't take responsibility for it - yes, we do run interventions but it is all fed back to teachers. Teacher identify, with TAs, pupils that may be suitable for a given intervention. Feedback through our normal regular meetings. Not all interventions can occur alongside the rest of the class, especially for children with specific needs.

  • tis easier to get TA to scribe / read then to teach child to write / read. - we don't scribe or read here. We support and encourage. Work is differentiated by teachers and made accessible to the children using them, therefore there is no need.

  • child kept in bottom table with TA because they need TA to read for them, even when it's not the right ability table for them - we have totally flexible tables which change at least half termly. Where groupings are used they are based o the child's own work in the specific subject. Just because a child has difficulties with reading they won't be places on the bottom table, where used, for something other than reading for example, writing tasks or maths.

  • in a small group intervention with a couple of statemented children you can end up with too many adults and it's distracting for everyone plus the teacher has to plan for the TA as well - we only take in additional adults into interventions if the child specifically requires them to be present, so no additional teachers. Teachers not planning for interventions.

In the school that has all these issues then yes I can see where TAs may cause some negative issues. But that is because they are being badly used within the school.

Yamyoid · 02/06/2013 20:49

At ds's school they already heavily rely on parents' help to read with kids etc in addition to the TAs.
This gvmt is truly frightening. There's still 2 years for them to destroy everything.

Hulababy · 02/06/2013 20:55

But yes, they have been talking about this for a few years now. So, who knows what will actually happen.

If they want to start employing me and paying me a teacher instead - well, all the better for me!