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Primary education

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The school is constantly mithering me for money

159 replies

colditz · 21/05/2013 00:42

Money for shitty ineffective swimming lessons that, in 6 years, have not taught my son to even float. Money for mandatory trips a a factory, or a cricket field. Money for dressing up charity events. I am sick of them asking me for money and then pressuring my children when I can't pay!

Where do I stand legally with this? Do I have to keep paying for everything they are asking me to pay for?

OP posts:
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CloudsAndTrees · 22/05/2013 23:06

I agree with it being wrong that they ask money for comic relief and the like. That's charity, and children shouldn't be peer pressured into donating to charity out of their parents pockets. I have been on a one woman protest against the comic relief/children in need fundraisers for the last few years, and my dc partake in wearing spots or whatever without paying the money. I have explained my objection to them, they agree, and they aren't pressured into giving money at school.

Cake sales and things like that are usually raise money for something specific for a class, or for the PTA. Those funds directly benefit out children, and I simply can't understand why any parent would begrudge that money. For what most of us pay in tax, we get a pretty good deal when it comes to education.

SanityClause · 22/05/2013 23:12

We were asked to make a contribution for DT materials at DD1's school, so I sent in the cheque, but she forgot to hand it in.

No one contacted me about it, and she got to do DT, so no humiliation for anyone, and obviously, it was truly voluntary.

(I found it in her bag, later, and sent it back in with a note apologising. I could afford it, and felt embarrassed that others were subsidising me!)

burberryqueen · 22/05/2013 23:13

really cos when my son didn't bring in fifty pee for DT he had to sit out of the lesson.

seeker · 22/05/2013 23:25

As I said, complain about teachers screwing up. Not about schools needing money to do good stuff with the kids.

burberryqueen · 22/05/2013 23:30

i was not complaining about that tho seeker.
besides if you keep running into the school with complaints about specific teachers, after a while they just hate you....

seeker · 22/05/2013 23:34

Yes you were. You were complaining about a teacher who mishandled you child not having his 50p. So get the school to make sure the staff knows how to handle situations like that.

CocktailQueen · 22/05/2013 23:36

Hmm, sounds like the school is trying to provide a good and balanced education and curriculum for the children.

OP, do you take your dc swimming at all or just leave it to the school?? For some children, swimming once a week is not enough to learn. YANBU if you do take your ds swimming but YABU if you know that he cannot float after 6 years and have not tried to address this yourself!!! Also, school swimming cost may be mainly for the bus to get them there and back from the pool, not actually swimming, Swimming is part of the curriculum so school are obliged to take kids.

Also, you do not have to put £££ into charity buckets etc, a few pence will do.

Are you on your PTA? Do you help your school to raise funds?? Or do you just criticise?

burberryqueen · 22/05/2013 23:40

yes you are probably right but you know how some schools are....it is hard to convince them that anything is wrong with their policies or teachers, and you get sick of sticking your head over the parapet for nothing ....

Mosman · 23/05/2013 04:39

A couple of the children hadn't taken it in and their names were read out from a list in front of the class and they were told they couldn't partake in the activity if their parent's didn't pay. I think that must have been really upsetting for the children in question.

I would have gone fucking ape shit at anyone who'd done that to a child in my children's class - even if it wasn't one of mine.
How dare they ?

TantrumsAndBalloons · 23/05/2013 06:11

There have been 2 trips cancelled in ds2 class this year because not enough parents paid the £10 they needed to go.

I honestly think that people need to consider where else the money would come from, if not from parental contributions? There would be no school trips.
The dressing up/charity/buy a cake things-it's to raise money for the school or for a good cause. Again, where else is this money going to come from?
For the most part, it's a bit of change, a pound here or there. But it makes a difference to the school.

Oh and whilst primary school might seem like a constant round of asking for a pound, £5, bring this, make that, it's not as bad as secondary.

Secondary, well dd and dd1 secondary school don't really ask for money throughout the year....however they love trips away.
Year 10 and 11 drama trip to New York at Easter. Lucky me that's both dd and DS. £1200. EACH.

xylem8 · 23/05/2013 06:58

secondary school is worse here and also you have to contend with constantly replacing items getting lost and stolen. And this is a grammar school in a country town not chav high !

Bunbaker · 23/05/2013 07:08

Great posts Tantrums, Cocktail, Chewing, smile Seeker and Clouds. I am a governor on the finance committee at a local school and for the first year ever the school is in deficit, and so are other local schools. The government funding cuts are really biting hard and if schools want to provide anything other than a basic sit at the desk lesson the money has to come from somewhere.

When DD was at primary school the PTA raised funds for loads of extras such as library books, painting lines on the playground for hopscotch and other games, buying laptops so the children had one each for ICT instead of having to share them, plus various other items to improve their learning experience at school.

BTW DD is in year 8 and so far I have been asked for far fewer contributions than I ever was when she was at primary school.

seeker · 23/05/2013 07:09

"And this is a grammar school in a country town not chav high !"

Did you really mean to post that???

TantrumsAndBalloons · 23/05/2013 07:13

Chav high?

Are you for real?

SwishSwoshSwoosh · 23/05/2013 07:29

I think schools do need to scale back a bit in bad economic times though. Trips are valuable, but when I was young we got a coach to the big park the other side of the city. That is adequate for bonding, change of scenery, group learning, getting out. It doesn't need to be a massive trip for children to get the benefits.

Again it is too much pressure being put on schools, who then transfer that to the parents (and in worst examples, to the children too).

CloudsAndTrees · 23/05/2013 07:50

It's usually the coach part of a trip that costs the most money though, so whether you get a coach to a park on the other side of town or you get a coach to an outdoor education centre, the coach will still have to be paid for by parents. It might make the difference of a few pounds, but if parents are going to complain about it either way, then the school may as well get the best experience possible for the children.

WorrySighWorrySigh · 23/05/2013 08:39

I think that schools do need to reconsider the trips which they propose. School is not the only thing in children's or their parents' lives. Should schools be offering fun or experience trips at all?

In my opinion they should not.

It should not be part of the school's remit to lay on trips to theme parks, play parks, residential adventure centres etc. At primary school age children dont need to be pushed to spend nights away from their families.

I dont know why schools started to offer these trips. They didnt exist when I was at school. They are hard work and a distraction for teachers (organising attendance, collecting money, arranging details etc etc). They are an additional cost and worry for some parents (how can I afford it? Will my child cope? etc etc). Do they really mean that much to the children who go? Mine certainly dont remember them.

ChewingOnLifesGristle · 23/05/2013 08:45

Agree with you Worry regarding the type of trips you mention.

Educational visits though I am supportive of. But theme parks and residential trips esp in primary school are an extra.

TantrumsAndBalloons · 23/05/2013 09:02

I remember my junior school residential trip. It was 24 years ago but it was brilliant. We went camping, hiking, did water sports all sorts of stuff we would never have had the chance to do.

Dd and ds1 had an amazing time on their residential trip.
They are both going to Spain later on this year to represent the school in sports. Again, it wasn't a cheap trip but it will be a wonderful experience.

They also have a reward trip every term which we have to pay for but they are only invited if their attendance and behaviour is at the expected level.

I don't see any reason to stop these trips tbh.

twilight3 · 23/05/2013 11:05

people who defend the schools over it are missing I think the point of the blackmail THROUGH young children. You can't keep complaining about teachers, nothing will happen and you'll end up being the unreasonable one as the school will cover for them. For months afterwards you will be the joke in the staff room (I'm not just imagining that). Any parent who has ever dared to complain at our school has been classed as precious, unreasonable, stuck up (these are just the few I've heard of first hand).

So, stop asking "how do you expect the school to pay" and answer me if possible my previous question: why should I pay for swimming, when it's compulsory? Does that not negate the concept of "free education"? I don't pay for their literacy or maths or history lessons... There is no transport involved. So £4 per 30 minutes x10 per child. What happens if I don't?

I don't mind paying for extra trips, days out, movie club, cooking club, all the EXTRA stuff that can make school fun. We never pay for charity or cake sales of mufti days as I have issues with the emotional blackmail put on little children shoulders. I donate my time to the school and the PTA and we do out charity bit out of school. My children now understand that and we're all happy with it.

However I find having to pay for a COMPULSORY part of the curriculum unethical. I can afford it. Not comfortably, it'll have to come out of the children's weekend activities, but we can do it. I know others who can't...

SwishSwoshSwoosh · 23/05/2013 11:29

The two main costs are coach and entry. Hard to go anywhere without the coach but at least with free venue the total trip cost can be kept down to a tenner. Some venues are ten pounds and more. That is too much IMO.

Also schools can say no spending money or set a low pocket money limit, which helps parents.

time4chocolate · 23/05/2013 11:57

I have to say that I seem to be forever (seems to be weekly but that might be a slight exaggeration) rummaging around for change or writing a cheque for my primary aged child. Made a payment last week for £10 for 5 cricket coaching sessions for my daughter who is not remotely interested in cricket (compulsory involvement as part of curriculum apparently). Dd is quite behind in maths but apparently cricket/yoga (£5) seems to take priority. Yesterday she bought a letter home as top two years of primary are having a sleepover at school, said yes she could go went to complete permission slip and payment of £15 is required with the instructions that she should have a main meal at home, drop at school for 7.30pm a snack will be provided with pick up at 8.00an prompt on Saturday. Am thinking what the hell I'll have them all over to my house if I can make that sort of money Smile.

Blueskiesandbuttercups · 23/05/2013 12:28

I think a lot of these companies eg the card makers,photo producers etc are out to fleece parents.The products cost pennies to make,are often crap,they use emotional blackmail.If said company goes bust you have no protection.I lost money on photos once because of this.

School should be free from marketing and money making schemes.

TenthMuse · 23/05/2013 12:53

Teacher here, so have seen the other side of this. The sad truth is that families are struggling at present, but schools are too; there is often real pressure (both from some parents, and Ofsted/the government) to do more in the way of 'experiential learning' - trips, visits etc - but schools simply do not have the resources for this. In my experience, we're often damned if we do and damned if we don't - many parents want this kind of interactive learning for their children; many children learn best by getting out of the classroom and doing, but we're also painfully aware that an increasing number of families struggle to afford these 'extras'.

In my last school, many of the parents had found out that the previous year group had visited the seaside as part of their topic, and were reguarly asking us to arrange the same trip for their children. We phoned around every coach company in the area, and the lowest quote they gave us would require us to request £15 per child just for the coach. We didn't charge parents the full amount - the school met some of the costs - but we did have to ask for around £10, just to get the children to the seaside and back. Similarly, the local council music service once tried to charge us £400 for an hour-long demonstration of some Spanish/Latin American music as part of the school's Spanish Day. We told them where to go and managed to cobble something together ourselves, but it highlights how many of these educational services know they're on to a good thing and overcharge massively.

Another school I taught in tried to cut costs by using public transport for trips rather than coaches. Taking the train/Tube to a London museum, enabled us to reduce the cost to parents from £16 to £3. However, a significant minority of parents were so aghast at the prospect of their children taking the 'dangerous' train (even with a 1:3 adult:child ratio) that they refused to give permission for them to go. They would rather pay the full £16 for what they saw as the added peace of mind.

Lastly, as someone who has frequently had to accompany classes to school swimming lessons, I agree with the OP that these are often a complete waste of time; the children who can already swim end up bored, and those who can't rarely learn anything because the teaching groups are so big and the teachers so uninterested. I've intervened a couple of times because the pool staff were standing around chatting instead of actually teaching, and was given short shrift - they know that schools are compelled to use their services as part of the National Curriculum. Most schools I've taught in have allocated funds for swimming themselves, but nonetheless if I were the OP I would raise this matter with the school.

TenthMuse · 23/05/2013 13:03

Oh, and just to add that many schools have recently invested in 'topic-based' schemes of work, which are intended to make learning more creative and cross-curricular. The plans that accompany these often call for a 'dress-up day' or 'topic day' every month or so, in order to bring what the children have learnt to life. If the schools follow these plans slavishly (which thankfully mine didn't), they do involve extra costs for all the additional resources required - either the teacher meets these themselves (I think many parents would be amazed at the amount of their own money teachers spend on their classes - mine ran into several hundreds per year while I was a class teacher and many others I know spent considerably more) or the school asks for a contribution from parents.